Grande Bandes

[Mr. Doran]

I am sure this topic has been discussed before but I think it warrants mentioning. While we surely do have access to skirmishers I do think we are missing the element of massed skirmishing; the lack of presence or option to have entire battalions worth of skirmishers in use as a tactical option.

[sandman]

I am sure this topic has been discussed before but I think it warrants mentioning. While we surely do have access to skirmishers I do think we are missing the element of massed skirmishing; the lack of presence or option to have entire battalions worth of skirmishers in use as a tactical option.

Do you have confirmed knowledge, that this hasnt been featured in the interior engine yet? Probably it might not be realized.
But we always have to be aware, that the things we see in the 3D displayed mode is not everything we get on the SIM level.

[Mr. Doran]

The manuals states that a regiment can detach only up to two companies of skirmishers and from what is represented on the visual side I am taking on face value in that regard. Even if more than two companies or even full battalions being detached we are still lacking the tactical flexibility in any sense of directing them towards a more specific area to be focused on.

[zu Pferd]

Hi Doran,

lots of discussions in the past over this very topic.
As it is light infantry does not perform as you described (to my own disappointment as well)
The chief reason is that there is a fixed number of units : one hundred.
You can parcel out reserve from a unit to another but you can't split a unit up (100-140 men)
Minimum number of men represented graphically is 250.This goes for Cavalry as well.

Behavior of light units is similar to line infantry, such as it will deploy in a line and
open fire and or assault the opponent line if morale wavers precipitating a rout.

Further, the element of ground complicates matters. All ground is traversable  by all arms
except artillery and cavalry (they keep to the center of the road in a built up area) there is no
difficult ground as such (except for marsh) rocky outcrops, lined fences (wood or stone), canal ditches dry or
wet, sunken roads, sand or rock pits, no height that can't be traversed directly (no path along a road needed)
Therefore no specialty, only slightly higher morale and fire coefficient.
Presently a regiment of regular line infantry can easily take a position in a town or a light wood and defended it.

This division is possible, the light regiments of average 3 battalions in separate battalions,
however this design will force the 100 unit maximum rule again.

I wonder if a graphic behavior can be designed to achieve a series of small lines, maybe in checkerboard
open order formation which are constantly firing and advancing, and when required reorganize in regular
3 deep lines, to assist and move (retreat and traverse through the friendly lines) on the flanks -left or right- of the regular lines as they arrive;
or a rotating 3 bn regiment with 1 bn always in open order once the specialty command was issued (similar to the NTW skirmish button) and 2 in line, without the 100 unit penalty.
These and other topics.
Best Regards

[Mr. Doran]

Hi Doran,

lots of discussions in the past over this very topic.
As it is light infantry does not perform as you described (to my own disappointment as well)
The chief reason is that there is a fixed number of units : one hundred.
You can parcel out reserve from a unit to another but you can't split a unit up (100-140 men)
Minimum number of men represented graphically is 250.This goes for Cavalry as well.

Behavior of light units is similar to line infantry, such as it will deploy in a line and
open fire and or assault the opponent line if morale wavers precipitating a rout.

Further, the element of ground complicates matters. All ground is traversable  by all arms
except artillery and cavalry (they keep to the center of the road in a built up area) there is no
difficult ground as such (except for marsh) rocky outcrops, lined fences (wood or stone), canal ditches dry or
wet, sunken roads, sand or rock pits, no height that can't be traversed directly (no path along a road needed)
Therefore no specialty, only slightly higher morale and fire coefficient.
Presently a regiment of regular line infantry can easily take a position in a town or a light wood and defended it.

This division is possible, the light regiments of average 3 battalions in separate battalions,
however this design will force the 100 unit maximum rule again.

I wonder if a graphic behavior can be designed to achieve a series of small lines, maybe in checkerboard
open order formation which are constantly firing and advancing, and when required reorganize in regular
3 deep lines, to assist and move (retreat and traverse through the friendly lines) on the flanks -left or right- of the regular lines as they arrive;
or a rotating 3 bn regiment with 1 bn always in open order once the specialty command was issued (similar to the NTW skirmish button) and 2 in line, without the 100 unit penalty.
These and other topics.
Best Regards

I am not sure I followed fully the technical limitations and specifications of the graphical limitations but is it not just possible to display an entire regiment functioning in this role as a massed skirmishing effort with possible restrictions on the amount of regiments that could ever be deployed as such? To me, anything is better than nothing when it comes to the depiction of this type of behavior.

[zu Pferd]

I don't know. I visualized as 1 regiment  1 bn  always in reserve 2 bn divided in companies
in checkerboard in the front maintaining a steady fire as they advance.
pge 114 of imperial bayonets  has several examples this is one (rough representation).

        o    o    o    o    o    o    o    o    o    o     
   o      o     o   o    o    o    o    o    o    o    o      this formation x three
     [            ]                               [            ]
                               HQ
                     
                      [2nd peloton]

                      [3rd peloton]

Its a question of animation to represent the entire regiment. I'm sure it could be animated.
In the event of threat an order, in the unit menu, to rally the regiment back from 'open order' to line/column.

One point of order. I know Napoleonic German allies and (Continental and Brits) had a specific battalion of lights to perform this skirmishing function.
So now in animation you'll have to be able to represent 2 possibilities:
a battalion and an entire regiment.

Cheers

[Mr. Doran]

It would be another delight if bodies of troops posed themselves as obstacles and disrupted the fog of war. If there will ever be the option in HW:N to deploy grande bandes then we would be able to perform such operations as using them to screen the true strength of our force like Lannes at Friedland; screening with light troops to conceal the true strength and or movement of ones force being a practice used in many different conflicts and periods throughout military history.

[zu Pferd]

I come late again to the forum to read your posts which are are very refreshing
and inject a lot of thought and interest, while the developer is like Santa without any elves, busy
working on the toy on his own.

Yes it would, to agree with your statement, and it was not implemented from the original 1st game
which JMM published and was picked up and run for awhile on ---------.com:
I have a copy of that game.
When LG was published I bought it, and upon seeing the Light Infantry and Cavalry regiments I was
miffed by the lack of proper usage by the AI. Later I was introduced to the game structure and general
topography, as well as a featureless environment except for features which when properly placed created bottlenecks
from which the AI could not extricate itself from. (not being cruel to the AI)
For a while the troops mounted or not happily crossed rivers without using the bridge, while the gunners were more
sensible and always did.
The featureless environment is the area needed for the Corps to develop and maneuver, if there is not enough the
whole chain of command freezes in the game.
Use a Campaign map to move the Corps, then when contact is made  open the other map to fight it with regiments, brigades, divisions...