Some questions from a Grognard

[Cuirassier66]

Hello JMM and others!

I have been pouring over all the info that I could get my hands on. I have also looked at the FAQs. Still I have several questions.

Infantry
*******

1. Would it be possible to detach the light company from a battalion as voltigeurs? If yes, could I actually see the sprites moving out from the parent battalion in skirmish formation?

2.Could I put a whole battalion of light infantry in skirmish fomation? (Tirraleurs en grandes bande) Excuse my French.

3. Would a battalion in skirmish formation be more vulnerable to a cavalry charge (as it should be!)

4. Would light infantry be more deadly in forests, broken terrain and built-up areas?

5. Would all type of regiments be allowed to deploy in skirmish formation? If yes, I would find it highly ahistorical. To fight in skirmish formation required special training and I would be surprised to see a Prussian Landwehr battalion deploy into skirmish order!

6. Would a bayonnet charge be more effective in column formation?

7. Would elite troops (like Grenadier battalions) have added bonus while attacking with the cold steel?

8. How are the musketry skills for the various nations (and various types of regiments) rated? For example would a battalion of British Redcoats shoot faster than a battalion of French line infantry?

9.What are the factors that would determine the outcome of a musketry duell between two battalions of equal strength?

Cavalry and Artillery in the following posts.

Thanks,
Cuirassier

Cavalry
*******

1. Would it be possible to execute a grand cavalry charge? I mean to combine four regiments into a division and make the whole division charge together. Or better still make a whole cavalry corps charge together! (Eylau anyone?)

2.Would I get an added morale bonus for a grand cavalry charge?

3. Only the French were masters of executing divison level and above grand cavalry charges. Would other nations be able to do this as well?  If yes, this would be ahistorical. The British, for example, never had any cavalry organization higher than a brigade.

4. How about lancers? Would they have an advantage against infantry?

5. How would lancers do against regular sabre armed light cavalry?

6. Suppose two regiments of heavy cavalry meet on plain ground. Both have 500 sabres. Both are fresh. Both have equal battle experience. One is armoured, the other is not. Who wins?

7. Could I attach horse artillery companies to charging brigades or divisions of cavalry? If yes, how would the cooperation be between cavalry and artillery in attacking an infantry square?

8. Could I order a cavalry regiment to fake charge an infantry battalion (so that I could compel the intantry unit to go into square?)

9.Could I order the cavalry into open order while attacking an artillery battery?


Thanks,
Cuirassier

[JMM]

Hello JMM and others!

I have been pouring over all the info that I could get my hands on. I have also looked at the FAQs. Still I have several questions.

THX a lot  :wink:

Infantry
*******

1. Would it be possible to detach the light company from a battalion as voltigeurs? If yes, could I actually see the sprites moving out from the parent battalion in skirmish formation?

Yes.. it's possible to deploy 2 coys (voltigeur) per regiment; the 3D skirmishers are in front of the line.

2.Could I put a whole battalion of light infantry in skirmish fomation? (Tirraleurs en grandes bande) Excuse my French.

No.. (thx for the french expression (tirailleur... but I often make a mistake with batailon, battailon, battalion... )

3. Would a battalion in skirmish formation be more vulnerable to a cavalry charge (as it should be!)

Yes.. on the threat, the 2 coys run to their regiment back.

4. Would light infantry be more deadly in forests, broken terrain and built-up areas?

No sure I understand the question... i try to answer :
If  a light regiment meets a line regiment in a forest, (all other things are the same), the line regiment is fleeing the first... because the forest modifies the moral of the units... and the effect is more important for a line regiment (I hope it's clear)

5. Would all type of regiments be allowed to deploy in skirmish formation? If yes, I would find it highly ahistorical. To fight in skirmish formation required special training and I would be surprised to see a Prussian Landwehr battalion deploy into skirmish order!

all regiment can't deploy their 2 coys (only the good regiments : Guard, Elite, Light and some line.. for example, with the database, a lot of french line regiments can use the skirmisk on 1805.. but it's not true after 1812)

6. Would a bayonnet charge be more effective in column formation?

Yes.. all line formation (no true for Guard and elite) are fleeing if they are charged by column formation (peloton or division)

7. Would elite troops (like Grenadier battalions) have added bonus while attacking with the cold steel?

there are a lot of parameters to compute the results of the melee : type, value, moral are the most important.

8. How are the musketry skills for the various nations (and various types of regiments) rated? For example would a battalion of British Redcoats shoot faster than a battalion of French line infantry?

British army isn't on the first version
In the mathematical model, there are 5 curves per country to compute the losses (one curve for each type : guard, elite...) and these curves simulate all parameters.

9.What are the factors that would determine the outcome of a musketry duell between two battalions of equal strength?

if all things are the same (strength, moral,neighbourhood,...) the 2 regiments get out at the same time...
On the battlefield, I am no sure this configuration is possible...
why : because
a) the neighbourhood modifies the moral of the regiment, (for example near of an another regiment, view by headquarter... Napoleon watches the regiment !!!
b) the geometry is generally different for the 2 sides...

JMM
PS : Nice Contribution... Frederic and I summarize these question/answer to place them into the FAQ...

[Cuirassier]

Artillery
*******
1. Would howitzers be able to fire shells at buildings to set them on fire? What would be effect of roundshots on a garrisoned building? Effect of roundshot on the troops inside the building?

2. Would the reload speed and the gunnery accuracy vary from company to company (depending upon experience) and between nations? French gunnery was almost always superior on the field.

3. Would charging infantry be able to capture a battery?

4. Would horse artillery be fast enough to gallop with the charging cavalry?

5. Would horse artillery be able to gallop away from enemy cavalry when being attacked? I mean will it have the speed?

[Cuirassier]

Combined arms tactics
*******************
1. Say I want to break an enemy infantry battalion. I have a regiment of light cavalry and a company of horse guns. I want to fake a charge against the inf battalion and force the unit into square. I then want the artillery company to blast away at the juicy target. How do I do this in the game? Could I attach an artillery company to the cavalry regiment with specific orders to support the cavalry charge?

2. Suppose I have a battalion of infantry and a regiment of cavalry. How do I defeat the enemy infantry battalion now?
 
3. What are the advantages of the checker board formation? (en echequier, again excuse my French). When should it be used?

4. What are the advantages of the echelon formation? When should it be used?

5. What are the advantages of the mixed order ( le ordre mixte?) formation? When should it be used?

6. What is the best troop type to assault a fortified building : grenadiers or light infantry?

7. What is the best formation to assault a fortified building?

8. What is the best method to assault a fortified building? Artillery bombardment first, grenadiers going in column formation screened by numerous light infantry?

9. What is the best troop type to assault an enemy in a forest?

10. What is the best formation to assault an enemy in a forest?

11. What is the best method to assault an enemy in a forest?

[JMM]

Cavalry
*******

1. Would it be possible to execute a grand cavalry charge? I mean to combine four regiments into a division and make the whole division charge together. Or better still make a whole cavalry corps charge together! (Eylau anyone?)

The Cavalery Tactical AI uses special rules : each opponent in the front of the cavalry deployment line is charged by a cavalry unit... so it's possible to get a Grand Cavalry Charge.. (but for example if there are 10 Opponents and 20 Cav units, only 10 Cav units charge the 10 Opponents.. and let imagine : 5 Cav units are fleeing... then AI immediatly sends 5 new cav units) I hope I answer to your question

2.Would I get an added morale bonus for a grand cavalry charge?

Yes and No... if there is a Grand Cavalry Charge, the neightbourhood is modified for each cav unit (the second line follows the first.. so the moral of the first line increases, in fact it's a general mechanism of Les Grognards)

3. Only the French were masters of executing divison level and above grand cavalry charges. Would other nations be able to do this as well?  If yes, this would be ahistorical. The British, for example, never had any cavalry organization higher than a brigade.

If yes, this would be ahistorical. the problem is about the GamePlay... sometimes, it's not easy to keep the historical behaviour... in this case, I choose the best GamePlay

4. How about lancers? Would they have an advantage against infantry?

Yes... the problem today is about the date.. I don't know if it's easy to get 2 kinds of parameters (before and after 1809 -> without and with french lance)

5. How would lancers do against regular sabre armed light cavalry?

Lancers are in the middle cavalry.. so they are better than hussars and other light Cav.

6. Suppose two regiments of heavy cavalry meet on plain ground. Both have 500 sabres. Both are fresh. Both have equal battle experience. One is armoured, the other is not. Who wins?

I think it's armoured regiment.

7. Could I attach horse artillery companies to charging brigades or divisions of cavalry? If yes, how would the cooperation be between cavalry and artillery in attacking an infantry square?

There are 2 cases:
a/ the regiment of cavalry moves against the INF regiment because the Colonel thinks he may destroy the infantrymen...
b/ on other hand, the colonel asks a support to his headquarter. If there is a free horse artiilery coy, this one attacks the square.

8. Could I order a cavalry regiment to fake charge an infantry battalion (so that I could compel the intantry unit to go into square?)

Yes you can... but all INF regiments use the square when there is a threat on the short distance (around 300 meters)

9.Could I order the cavalry into open order while attacking an artillery battery?

There are 3 formations for the CAV : march, column and line... no more

Thanks,
Cuirassier

Thank you for these good questions.. I hope my answers are right.

[JMM]

Artillery

*******

1. Would howitzers be able to fire shells at buildings to set them on fire?

Yes... it's possible. Howitzer fire shell and canister... The great difference between canon and howitzer is the howitzer can fire above this line.

What would be effect of roundshots on a garrisoned building? Effect of roundshot on the troops inside the building?

Each object (houses, castle, farms, forest...) decreases the losses.

2. Would the reload speed and the gunnery accuracy vary from company to company (depending upon experience) and between nations? French gunnery was almost always superior on the field.

Yes, I agree :wink:  there are 4 kinds of ART : guard and line ART (and Horse / Foot). Each one has a value! and each gun (12, 8, 4 pounds howitzers) has a different curves to compute the losses. The mean difference beetwen country is the effective distance.

3. Would charging infantry be able to capture a battery?

NO :wink:

4. Would horse artillery be fast enough to gallop with the charging cavalry?

No... there is a difference.. I believe the speed is around 12 km per hour for the Horse Art, and around 18 km per hour for CAV (and there is difference for each country, each type (heavy..) and for the formation (march, column, line)... So, the Horse CAV is late... but it's not very important

5. Would horse artillery be able to gallop away from enemy cavalry when being attacked? I mean will it have the speed?

Not easy to answer... if the Horse Cav can't get some support, it's possible the CAV snaps it.

JMM

[Cuirassier]

Some further questions on infantry and cavalry


Infantry
*******

*Is the basic infantry unit a battalion or a regiment?

*How many sprites does the game have for a basic infantry unit? Is the ratio like 1:10?

*Would a battalion of infantry formed in square be able to slowly move?

*Would the marching speeds of line and light infantry be different?

*Would the marching speeds of infantry from different nations be different?

*Is it possible that a battalion in LINE formation be ever able to repulse cavalry by pure firepower?

*You mention a term "drumfire" for the infantry in the FAQ. What does it mean?  

Cavalry
******
*Would it  be possible for a regiment of cavalry to break an inf square under special circumstances?

*Would heavy cavalry have a charge bonus against infantry?

*Would light cavalry be able to completely surround a beaten inf battalion and compel it to surrender?

*What are the relative advantages and disadvantages of :

 Heavy Cav (Cuirassiers, Carabiniers, Horse Grenadiers, Heavy Dragoons)
 Line Cav ( Dragoons and Lancers)
 Light Cav (Hussars, chevaux-legers, chasseurs a cheval, light dragoons)

Thanks again for the detailed answers

-Cuirassier

[JMM]

Combined arms tactics
*******************
1. Say I want to break an enemy infantry battalion. I have a regiment of light cavalry and a company of horse guns. I want to fake a charge against the inf battalion and force the unit into square. I then want the artillery company to blast away at the juicy target. How do I do this in the game? Could I attach an artillery company to the cavalry regiment with specific orders to support the cavalry charge?

Could you look at the previous answer about CAV and ART. THX :wink:

2. Suppose I have a battalion of infantry and a regiment of cavalry. How do I defeat the enemy infantry battalion now?

The best thing is to threaten a side of square with the CAV, and then the INF attacks another side. If it's possible, the CAV must threaten the side betwwen the square and his communication line.
 

3. What are the advantages of the checker board formation? (en echequier, again excuse my French). When should it be used?

It's a good method for a defensive movement. (jeu d'échec, en échiquier.. sometimes, the french is curious   )

4. What are the advantages of the echelon formation? When should it be used?
5. What are the advantages of the mixed order ( le ordre mixte?) formation? When should it be used?

Good question... I'll be back on these questions with some pictures...
No easy to give a generic answer

6. What is the best troop type to assault a fortified building : grenadiers or light infantry?

You know each type of INF unit has a loss level before fleeing. If you must take a zone, you must engage your best troops : Guard, Elite (grenadier), light, line...

7. What is the best formation to assault a fortified building?

Column de division..

8. What is the best method to assault a fortified building? Artillery bombardment first, grenadiers going in column formation screened by numerous light infantry?

It's a good tactical plan to begin with ART bombardement.
Your plan is the best.. About  screened by numerous light infantry, I don't think you can do this. Just 2 coys per regiment.

9. What is the best troop type to assault an enemy in a forest?
10. What is the best formation to assault an enemy in a forest?
11. What is the best method to assault an enemy in a forest

In les Grognards, there are 2 types of forest...
a/ very dense... and no unit is able to move across the trees.
b/ middle density... unit uses the different organisation (line, column, march) but the cohesion is low (moral decreases, delay to order increases)...

I don't know if there is only one answer. We have to do a lot of experience to learn the best scenario...

[JMM]

Some further questions on infantry and cavalry


Infantry
*******

*Is the basic infantry unit a battalion or a regiment?

Regiment (because Les Grognards only manages 100 units per side

*How many sprites does the game have for a basic infantry unit? Is the ratio like 1:10?

Yep... there are 10 (9 coy Battalion) or  13 (6 coy Battalion) True 3D infantrymen per coy.

*Would a battalion of infantry formed in square be able to slowly move?

Yes..

*Would the marching speeds of line and light infantry be different?

No...

*Would the marching speeds of infantry from different nations be different?

{5500   //FRANCAIS
{5000,   //RUSSE
{4500,   //AUTRICHIEN
meter / hour

*Is it possible that a battalion in LINE formation be ever able to repulse cavalry by pure firepower?

Yes.. it's a particular case.. to do that, the regiment must be in the midle of the line, getting a support on these two lateral sides.

*You mention a term "drumfire" for the infantry in the FAQ. What does it mean?  

  I don't know    Frederic is answering as soon as possible

Cavalry
******

*Would it  be possible for a regiment of cavalry to break an inf square under special circumstances?

I don't think it's possible. This event was rare, and the Grognards' model tries to follow the historical events.

*Would heavy cavalry have a charge bonus against infantry?

Yes or No... It's mean each unit has a parameter defining his Value... This value is using during the melee. It's not a bonus, but an intrinsic value.

*Would light cavalry be able to completely surround a beaten inf battalion and compel it to surrender?

Yes.. the AI does that. It's a very good idea to build each corps with 5..10% of light cav..

*What are the relative advantages and disadvantages of :

 Heavy Cav (Cuirassiers, Carabiniers, Horse Grenadiers, Heavy Dragoons)
 Line Cav ( Dragoons and Lancers)
 Light Cav (Hussars, chevaux-legers, chasseurs a cheval, light dragoons)

Speed : Light -> Line -> Heavy
Strength : Heavy -> Line -> Light

(there isn't Heavy ou Light Dragoons.. just Dragoons in the Line Cav)

I don't see any other advantage/disadvantage  

Thanks again for the detailed answers

-Cuirassier

I hope my answers are clear.
I'll try to make a FAQ with your very interesting questions.
Maybe you are the Cuirassier who asked some questions on MG's Forum 2 years ago?

JMM, hei!

Thanks a ton for your very detailed answers. I have always had Cuirassier as my psuedonym. So it is possible that we have met on the net before.

I have played BreakAway game's Waterloo to death, same with Austerlitz. I have also been an active modder for the Napoleonic Total War Mod for the Medieval Total war. In fact I balanced the unit stats for the various troop types for that mod.

I do have LGAA. I pretty much buy anything remotely connected to Napoleonic Wargaming. So I could not let LGAA go unnoticed. Sad to say, I could only run LGAA in 2D mode. It does not work in 3D for some odd reason. Anyways the 3D mode in LGAA was, how to put it diplomatically, less than impressive for me. So I will wait for Les Grognards. I have a few gripes about your new 3D screens as well. But that is the topic for another thread.

In the following I am going to pose a number of tactical problems for the novice LGAA/Les Grognards user. I would be thankful if you could give some detailed answers.

Best Regards,
Cuirassier

TACTICAL PROBLEMS
******************

In the following I am assuming an user who is new to the LGAA/Les Grognards system. I am assuming some passing familiarity with Napoleonic warfare basics though.

I am going to pose a number of tactical problems starting from the mundane and going towards more complex scenarios.


I would be very useful if you could give some detailed answers such as "Click on the brigade to select it; right click on the enemy to attack with cold steel" etc.

It is assumed that the player is French and the computer AI plays the Austrians. I am also assuming that the control is taken away from AI and the player is manually controlling the regiments/divisions/corps.

Some of the questions might seem very obvious to you. But I wanted to collect all of them in one place so that I could write a tutorial of some sort later!



Problem 1:
**********
*A French line regiment encounters an Austrian grenadier battalion posted slightly to the left of the French march line. I want to send out two light companies, deploy the rest of the rgmt in line, deliver a few volleys, form column by divisions ( attack column in English literature) and charge in with the cold steel. What are the commands/ sequences for this?

Problem 2:
**********
*Same as above. But I have an artillery company in support for the inf regiment. How do I move the arty coy to flank the enemy infantry and order it to move to canister range? What are the commands?

Problem 3:
**********
*Same as above. But now I have a regiment of lancers to support me. How do I order the lancers to put them between the infantry square and the line of communication for the enemy?

Problem 4:
**********
*I have an infantry divison. I want the first brigade to attack in line of battle. I want the second brigade to follow at 200 paces distance in attack column formation ( column of divisions). What are the commands?

More coming up later.

Thanks in advance.

-Cuirassier

TACTICAL PROBLEMS
******************

In the following I am assuming an user who is new to the LGAA/Les Grognards system. I am assuming some passing familiarity with the Napoleonic warfare basics though.

I am going to pose a number of tactical problems starting from the mundane and going towards more complex scenarios.


I would be very useful if you could give some detailed answers such as "Click on the brigade to select it; right click on the enemy to attack with cold steel" etc.

It is assumed that the player is French and the computer AI plays the Austrians. I am also assuming that the control is taken away from AI and the player is manually controlling the regiments/divisions/corps.

Some of the questions might seem very obvious to you. But I wanted to collect all of them in one place so that I could write a tutorial of some sort later!



Problem 1:
**********
*A French line regiment encounters an Austrian grenadier battalion posted slightly to the left of the French march line. I want to send out two light companies, deploy the rest of the rgmt in line, deliver a few volleys, form column by divisions ( attack column in English literature) and charge in with the cold steel. What are the commands/ sequences for this?

Problem 2:
**********
*Same as above. But I have an artillery company in support for the inf regiment. How do I move the arty coy to flank the enemy infantry and order it to move to canister range? What are the commands?

Problem 3:
**********
*Same as above. But now I have a regiment of lancers to support me. How do I order the lancers to put themselves between the infantry square and the line of communication for the enemy?

Problem 4:
**********
*I have an infantry divison. I want the first brigade to attack in line of battle. I want the second brigade to follow at 200 paces distance in attack column formation ( column of divisions). What are the commands?

More coming up later.

Thanks in advance.

-Cuirassier

[Le Tondu]

This a fantastic thread.  The answers are VERY enlightening.  Thank you JMM.

There are so many questions....

[JMM]

Hi Cuirassier,

I need some hours to answer to these very interesting questions...
Don't worry, I am answering as soon as possible.
But, the best way is to draw some pictures; and I have to finish the database of the OoB editor...

More 1100 units.. french, austrian, russian, saxe, baviere,... around 20 countries...

More 4000 names of CinC, marschall,...

For example, 980 russian colonels... (date allows to match colonel with his regiment..)

Regards,
JMM