Borodino map update!

[Count von Csollich]

It is old version! Try with my last trial version which adapted for Nix Borodino buildings mod.

even better

[Alfiere]

So , seems more easy , if i put Dovout more east of russian corp.
But it is plausibile that in the night , none notice of the passage of Davout ?

[Jacquinot]

Seems that Davout personally visited the ground the day before.

I think not, in Russia we have one important document - French sketch map which was made by general Mouton one day befor battle, as you can see Frenchmans know nothing about Russian left flank before battle!!! Look an notice in right top corner - "Here Poles led by his noble met a hidden enemy". Frenchmans know nothing about Tuchkov's corps!

[Alfiere]

Yes , you have already told me this.
But now it is the second book, where i read that Davout visited personally the ground at left russian flanck.
Chandler and now i am reading Anka Muhlstein 'Napoleon to Moscow'.
Napoleon the day before send also 'expert men' to update his maps where they can go,it is clear .

[Jacquinot]

So , seems more easy , if i put Dovout more east of russian corp.
But it is plausibile that in the night , none notice of the passage of Davout ?

I think Cossacks outposts immediately inform general Kutusov about this maneuver and Russian army leave Borodino field.

[Alfiere]

I think that you are right..
It is for this reason that Napoleon do not agree at Davout plan.
For Naploeon do not like to weaken the center and has fear that ,if Davout discoverd,the russian go away yet.

[Jacquinot]

Grouchy's advance -

1. Destroy Tuchkov's corps.
2. Attack Russian artillery reserve.

I see one problem for this maneuver - all area covered in brushwood, i don't know it is possible to move artillery in brushwood?

What do you think Alf?

[oster1815]

From your own maps and paintings, those brushwoods are not very thick, they probably slow moves but not stop them....
 It is possible to watch  actual movies from WWI and even WWII, with guns horsedrawns . I also saw real ACW pieces in reenactement closely...
 They move at an amazing speed ( in emergency ) and on very  broken ground when necessary. They were only stopped by thick woods or hedges and by straight cuts, and the gun  teams managed to clear paths in wooden bareers or push a fallen tree aside quickly.
The guns like french 75mm or german 77 or ACW "Napoleon "  had also limbers and spiked wheels and the gross weight was about the same as average  8pdrs... So, I 'ld call it difficult /slowing ground but not impossible
Oster

[Jacquinot]

From your own maps and paintings, those brushwoods are not very thick, they probably slow moves but not stop them....
 It is possible to watch  actual movies from WWI and even WWII, with guns horsedrawns . I also saw real ACW pieces in reenactement closely...
 They move at an amazing speed ( in emergency ) and on very  broken ground when necessary. They were only stopped by thick woods or hedges and by straight cuts, and the gun  teams managed to clear paths in wooden bareers or push a fallen tree aside quickly.
The guns like french 75mm or german 77 or ACW "Napoleon "  had also limbers and spiked wheels and the gross weight was about the same as average  8pdrs... So, I 'ld call it difficult /slowing ground but not impossible
Oster

Maybe Davout was right, but he must move troops at night on unknown and overgrown area and unnoticeable for Russians.

[Alfiere]

Grouchy's advance -

1. Destroy Tuchkov's corps.
2. Attack Russian artillery reserve.

I see one problem for this maneuver - all area covered in brushwood, i don't know it is possible to move artillery in brushwood?

What do you think Alf?

Yes , in this version is more easy , but reserve art is very danger for Davout advance.
but i have tried only old vesion....

[Alfiere]

Maybe Davout was right, but he must move troops at night on unknown and overgrown area and unnoticeable for Russians.

Yes , the cosacks are everywhere.Follow how a shadow french movements.
I do not think that Davout can moves  without to be discovered, also in the night.

[Jacquinot]

Yes , in this version is more easy , but reserve art is very danger for Davout advance.
but i have tried only old vesion....

I think Russian art reserve easy target for Grouchy's cavalry corps without support.

[Jacquinot]

Yes , the cosacks are everywhere.Follow how a shadow french movements.
I do not think that Davout can moves  without to be discovered, also in the night.

That maybe, but who knows.

[oster1815]

Maybe Davout was right, but he must move troops at night on unknown and overgrown area and unnoticeable for Russians

Night is probably the real problem, specially with artillery 

I don't think of many examples of moving large bodies of troops at night, in almost unknown country...even with a Davout leading 

Oster

[Jacquinot]

Night is probably the real problem, specially with artillery 

I don't think of many examples of moving large bodies of troops at night, in almost unknown country...even with a Davout leading 

Oster

I trust to Davout, he best!