Commander ratings - some questions.

[Gunner24]

In the manual Charisma and Competence for the the Commanders is deemed to be VERY important but it does not change the CEH of an Army ?.  You could have all good, or all bad Commanders and have the same CEH strenght.

My question is if two sides have a "random" 200 CEH battle and want to change the OOB around a little while keeping it at 200CEH what's to stop someone from changing the Commanders to all top performers and still having a 200CEH Army ?.

As LG is so strong on realaistic and historic accuracy would it not be "wrong" to have an Army of all good Corps Commanders ?.  There is a percentage limit on the troops types, should there not be the same limit on Commanders abilities ?.

I guess everyone will make sure there Corps Commander are ALL good ones !.

[Hook]

Kind of gamey, don't you think? 

Since both players will be doing the same thing (because we tend to segregate into different communities where the more serious players will tend to play with each other while the more gamey players will be playing with their own groups), this shouldn't be a problem for anyone.

Hook

[Gunner24]

It is something that is there to be abused by those that wish to do it.

I will NOT be doing it myself, the idea of having all your Corps Commanded by the best of the best is rather silly.

 I would hope to see something done in the future to avoid this happening, in the same way that it's impossible to have too many Guard units etc etc.

[Soldat Louis]

I think that Gunner's question is a good one. I haven't started to build up my own army yet but I was also wondering about the CEH cost of the commanders with respect to their respective values. If they are all equal, then I will probably have to make a survey of the different officers in order to selec only the best ones. But I agree with gunner that would be rather strange.

By the way, I had a look in the manual 2 but I could not find the answer to the following questions.

Were can we find the CEH value of each units / commanders?

How can we monitor the total CEH value in real time when we build up our armies with the editor ?

Anyone kows

[Gunner24]

Hook will know the answer for you better than I do but a little help :

Were can we find the CEH value of each units / commanders?

There is no CEH for Commanders, if you start with nothing and add a new unit, you will see straight away how much the CEH is for that unit.

How can we monitor the total CEH value in real time when we build up our armies with the editor ?

It will be displayed as you add more units to the OOB. 

If you start with a randon OOB of say 200CEH you can then adjust it by taking some formations out and adding others, every time you make a change you will see the new CEH displayed.  I find this a great way to make something interesting without having to spend  to much time, but others will like to build the OOB bit by bit.

[Hook]

Since it's silly and no one is going to do it (at least this is what is said in public) then why is it a problem?

Or just let them do it and don't worry about it.  I like playing the Allies, and they have a pretty poor selection of commanders.  I still win. 

Your time would be better spent learning how to properly use your guard forces.

Hook

[Gunner24]

Hook : I've looked at this again, and it's not as silly as I/we first thought.

If you make a random OOB, it only takes a few seconds to go into the OOB and change your Corps Commanders with the click of a button, now the question :

Why would you field an Army with poor grade CC's ?.....no one is going to do that when it takes 60 seconds to change them all to good or very good ones.  I don't see this as a "cheat" but pure common sense, it would be crazy to have 6 poor grade CC when it's so easy to "swap" them for better ones. 

This is a vital part of the game, the CCs do make a big difference.  You called it gamey and I understand what you mean, but a big part of the enjoyment in PBEM and MP is going to be buiding you OOB for each different battle / map / opponent.  I could not expect anyone I was fighting a battle against to NOT do this, after checking how easy it is.

Now, if everyone does the same, then there is no problem becasue it's the same for all - you pick your Commanders as you pick how many Cav or Arty you want the army to have, it's a great feature, but.......it's like saying the OG cost the same as the Line Inf !.

As these guys are very important, It would make sense to have the better Commanders "cost" more than the worst ones - don't you think ?.  OR, a limit on them, so you can not have all the best ones selected, like you have a limit to how many OG you can field.

[Hook]

I think you're overestimating the value of good commanders.  A good player won't need the best commanders.

But why is this a problem?  If your opponent is doing it, then is there any reason why you shouldn't do it as well? 

What exactly in terms of actual game experience do the better commanders do for you?  What have you seen in games, rather than reading about in the manual?  How much better is a good commander than a poor one?

How would you handle it if it weren't ever hard coded into the game?  How would you suggest hard coding it in the game in such a way that it won't make it impossible to make certain historical scenarios?

Hook

[Gunner24]

Hook, if I say it will get dark tonight can you find anyway of telling me I'm wrong ?.

I think you're overestimating the value of good commanders.  A good player won't need the best commanders.

Perhaps I am overestimating it, you could be right, but I doubt it !.  What if I'm not a good Commander ?.  In MP or PBEM do you think everyone will have the same level of skill ?......what/who is a good player ?.  If it makes no difference why do they all have different ratings ?. 

It's a cold, hard, obvious, fact that a "very good" Commander will be better in game than a "poor" Commander - see the moral charts.  Why is it you can not bring yourself to agree with that very simple fact ?. 

Why have "poor" CiC/CCs when it costs no more to have the BEST CiC/CCs in the OOB editor ?.

I hope to see you pick all the worst CCs when you play MP or PBEM, you will win anyway so you don't need to pick the better ones -but perhaps some of us do need all the help we can get.

How would you suggest hard coding it in the game in such a way that it won't make it impossible to make certain historical scenarios?

That's simple......The best Commanders cost CEH x (say 5 or 10 or 15 or whatever....), the good cost x-y, the average costs x-y1, the totaly usless ones are free - ha.

But why is this a problem?  If your opponent is doing it, then is there any reason why you shouldn't do it as well?

100% correct, this is why we will all now need to pick the best ones, unless you want to "handicap" yourself like I assume the EXPERTS will be doing as their so much better than the rest or us they won't need the best Commanders on the battlefield.

[amrcg]

I think that the game should allow the player to choose whoever he wishes to provide freedom of scenario design. Players can agree on the commander quality limits outside of the game and choose the commander ratings accordingly when tweaking the OOBs.
In fact I'm against everything that limits the freedom of scenario design. I pray that one day HW-LG will allow players to build/change the nations/regiments database themselves.

Regards,
Antonio

[Hook]

It's a cold, hard, obvious, fact that a "very good" Commander will be better in game than a "poor" Commander - see the moral charts.  Why is it you can not bring yourself to agree with that very simple fact ?. 

Because I've tested it. 

You answered everything but the most important question:

What exactly in terms of actual game experience do the better commanders do for you?  What have you seen in games, rather than reading about in the manual?  How much better is a good commander than a poor one?

I've played other games where commanders made a major difference.  I haven't seen that same difference playing HWLG.

Hook

[AJ]

What exactly in terms of actual game experience do the better commanders do for you?  What have you seen in games, rather than reading about in the manual?  How much better is a good commander than a poor one?

Then why, according to the Moral Charts, does the Manual imply that it makes such a difference?

[Gunner24]

I haven't seen that same difference playing HWLG.

OK, that's good then, the Commanders (good bad and ugly) all have the same moral effects on their troops so it makes no difference which CiC and CCs you go to battle with - easy.

All my comments in this subject apply to PBEM and MP only.