Why are cannons not scaled like Inf and Cav are ?.

[Gunner24]

I've not understood the idea behind this, and this remark from another topic made me think some more about it.

I must admit that in HWLG it often seems like batteries are everywhere)?

The reason for this is because the game is scaled 10/1 for men but 1/1 for artillery, which I have never understood the reasom for.  Why are the cannons not scaled as well ?....a 10 cannon battery could be scaled at say 5/1 and have 2 model cannons to represent the battery, which would "look right" amonst the number of model Inf and Cav displayed....a large battery of 20 cannons now shows 20 model cannons, a Cav Regt of 800 men shows 80 men.

I'm sure it must have been explained at some stage in the past on the OLD forum, but a reminder now would be most interesting.

[gumby7]

I love looking down the battle line and watching hundreds of guns going off at once. That probably wouldn't be as visible if the cannons were scaled. But logically speaking, it is bizarre.

[Gunner24]

Yes, it does look good with all those cannons lined up, but I sometimes can not help but feel there are too many, compared to the numbers of Inf and Cav.

It can not be helping the pathfinding issues of where they deploy, with so many cannons to find room for.

[JMM]

Why... because it's important 
Why important ?

Several ideas:

• a: generally speaking, a company of artillery is around 6 cannons... so no real interesting to display with only one 3D model,

• b: more important : after deploying, a cannon needs around 18 meters of front line; so if you have a 1/10 ratio, a cannon has to hold 180 meters... impossible

• c: important too: each cannon can be destroyed; sometimes, a company moves after losing out several cannons. Impossible with a choice 1/10

It's very different with the soldier. HG:LG uses the geometric scale factor to get a good presentation. Each 3D model for infantry holds around 10m².

Are you agree?

JMM

[Gunner24]

Yes, thanks for the explantion, looks like item b is the main reason, 20 real cannons have to take up 360m of ground and 2 ( or 4) models would not do that.

[Montecuccoli]

It is like miniatures based wargames, just having a single cannon in a counter is soo bad to look at 

[Duke of Earl]

Bonjour Messieurs,

By the way ..... I have discovered that each cannon in a battery counts as 1 flag ..... 

So, for me, the pieces of the flag puzzle are:

Each battalion = 1 flag
Each squadron = 1 flag
Each cannon = 1 flag

Maybe I am wrong ..... but this seems to be consistent with unit data and game analyse ..... 

Cordialement, DoE

[Cyrano]

FWIW, just about every miniatures game I can think of makes this same "fudge" for exactly the same reasons...and those that don't strictly "scale" the guns this way, do other bits of hand waving like melding their firepower into INF brigades or battalions.

I have long thought JMM's response for this to be rather elegant.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

[Darsh]

The next step will be to have for the infantery and the calery the same scale than for the artillery. 

[Count von Csollich]

The next step will be to have for the infantery and the calery the same scale than for the artillery.  

I thought about that too until I was enlightened...if we have a 1:1 scale for all units...the individual units have to be much smaller...the intervalls between the units would stay the same - so that they could still form line with the proper space required to perform this maneuver...and only the figures would be tiny, tiny, tiny -    

CvC

[Darsh]

I thought about that too until I was enlightened...if we have a 1:1 scale for all units...the individual units have to be much smaller...the intervalls between the units would stay the same - so that they could still form line with the proper space required to perform this maneuver...and only the figures would be tiny, tiny, tiny -    

CvC

It doesn't bother me if we'll have smaller individual units because  the advantage of Histwar is more the number of soldiers than the graphical quality of each soldiers like in a NTW.
The better solution would to have the choice between different scale for different tastes.

[Count von Csollich]

It doesn't bother me if we'll have smaller individual units because  the advantage of Histwar is more the number of soldiers than the graphical quality of each soldiers like in a NTW.
The better solution would to have the choice between different scale for different tastes.

but doesn't the speciality also lie in the accuracy of the uniforms? - unlike NTW they're exactly how they should look like...
and making different numbers of soldiers displayed an option is a huge amount of work - where not only the new higher number of animated figures has to be considered...
of course having a 1:1 scale would be wonderful...but right now, I am more concerned about the different issues of the game as it is than with a totally new game feature, which involves the remodelling of the entire game.

CvC

[Gunner24]

I am more concerned about the different issues of the game as it is than with a totally new game feature

Agreed, I like the "scale" of the game, I only started this topic because with some OOBs the sheer number of cannons is massive.

[JamesL]

It doesn't bother me if we'll have smaller individual units because  the advantage of Histwar is more the number of soldiers than the graphical quality of each soldiers like in a NTW.
The better solution would to have the choice between different scale for different tastes.

I agree 100% with what Darsh says here.  

Histwar is a true simulation of the Napoleonic battlefield - but it does not look like a real battle!  At the moment it looks like isolated companies,  a battle reenacment or a 3d reprisentation of a tabletop game.  And you dont gain anything from a close up look at the troops because to be quite frank the 3D models look terrible.  

Why not have the option of a 1 to 1 scale useing a much more basic model to compensate for the increase in figures - quantity over quality in rendering terms.  When viewing the battlefield one tends to look at units rather than individuals and it would be a much more realistic experience to see say a 450 strong battaleon of small basic but to scale figures than 45 crudly rendered giants.

I know JMM is busy with the strat Ai & a 100 other things right now.  But is it not possible for the talented graphics modders out there to creat such 1 to 1 representation?

[Regiment 0]

But is it not possible for the talented graphics modders out there to creat such 1 to 1 representation?

I don't know how complex this would be, but at the moment it is not possible to edit the models themselves as the file type is 'proprietary' to HWLG. JMM has mentioned putting together modding docs/tools, but that this has to wait for other, more pressing things to be done.

The current models also look to be pretty basic so how much they could be optimized I don't know. Then if you change the models, you'd have to look at the animations. The terrain (trees, grasses etc.) and buildings would also need to be scaled. Given the constraints on zooming and angle of view in HWLG, how this would all look would be anyone's guess. I'm imagining that the ground textures would need to be simplified so that the units wouldn't be lost against them.

And none of this mentions the computer resources needed to run the game with effectively 10 times more models. It would certainly be interesting to push it and see, but I don't think it will be a quick job.