Let's figure out a way to do campaigns with LG

[gazfun]

My intent is to use Pratzen's "Vol de L'Aigle".  It's essentially an operational-level kriegsspiel done on period maps with a pretty reasonable set of rules.

It currently has OrBats for all the major Napoleonic campaigns EXCEPT the Peninsula (a real regret), Italy, and Egypt.

FWIW, the more detail you throw into the strategic layer, in my relatively long experience, the less likely you are to finish.  To those planning on using EIA, I wish you well.  There is no greater system, IMHO, for simulating that level of the Napoleonic Wars, but you need seven real believers who are preferably either in college or retired.

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

Well im sorry you have had such a bad experience at this.
In the PC version of EiA (EIANW) we have had 7 games going for some time, three of which have been going on for three years now, but thats the 10 years Campaign, we have a couple of players pull out, but have had replacements which have continued on.
We get players coming to us for a great gaming experience and they get it with EiANW make no mistake join us and we will get you a good game with young and experienced players if you want a game of EiANW.
Now there is a game editor with EiANW and you can make short Games or Campaigns now.
The EiANW game editor, you only need a requisite number of players for a particular Campaign you want to design, you dont need seven players for this, 2 or 3 would be sufficient for heads of state, the rest play only battles. Other heads of state can be run by the AI its not a good AI but you can design your Scenario so that the other AI players are out of the way so to speak, till the end of scenario time.
Whats the problem ?

[HarryInk]

Ah, but Gaz, what if I just want to romp down the danube valley trying to trap Mack or Karl or Kutusov or you or Miloradovich or Broadsword in an operational level effort with 10km hexes?

[gazfun]

Ah, but Gaz, what if I just want to romp down the danube valley trying to trap Mack or Karl or Kutusov or you or Miloradovich or Broadsword in an operational level effort with 10km hexes?

Well I dont know why you didnt mention this when you chatted to me recently
Its simple mate play each EIA area in the Campaign size map of HW LG

Going down the cyberboard road is a long and hard one, you have to make everything from scratch

[LNDavout]

For  me i can base it to my personal rules...

thats pretty cool. Also for tournaments..

Yes its a bit work but that ok... somthing to do till the final release.

he he

[Double Deuce]

Regarding a strategic level using another program. One of the limitations is going to be just how easy is it to "create" a scenario in the editor based on the campaign map/situation. In other words, will it be extremely time consuming for any GM(s) to create individual scenarios based on encounters on the campaign map? GM's will have to be able to put these out in a fairly short time to keep things running smoothly and players will need to be able to complete their battles in a reasonable time frame as well. Due to the various time zones players will be in reliance on Pbem's may be necessary which will considerably slow the scenario completion time.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts from the years of having personally run several of these type games using other game engines (predominantly WWII and Modern themes).

Also, although I may not be able to dedicate time for running something like this, I would be more than willing to help out anyone who does and maybe  even consider running a "very small" test campaign.

[HarryInk]

You're quite right, DD.  Combat Mission, for example, has never spawned a workable campaign system as PBEMs usually take 4-6 weeks or so.  Far too much slow down whenever battalions go bump!  Somehow the 'Onion Wars' play on but I've not seen any other groups survive many encounters before burnout.

So, a PBEM campaign is likely to be a year's undertaking, perhaps.  Alternatively, if you're in it with a few locals (or, at least, people in nearby time zones) then the resolutions can be quicker and the whole kept rolling along.  A mate here in Melbourne has been running a French Revolutionary campaign for years using Empire Rules.  He has the same issues in a way.  The fighting with miniatures is a little like watching paint dry.  Slower, actually, as they'd meet weekly and often have to run big battles over several weeks to get them done.  Paint generally only takes a day!  LG at least promises to get battles over in one sitting, even with half-a-dozen players, allowing the campaign to get going again.  For a long time I've imagined that to be one of this games great promises.

@Gaz: I thought EiA was much more strategic in outlook.  You've trimmed it down a bit in a campaign mode to synch with LG?  It'd be a good idea to do a thread, I suppose, narrating the use of the system with LG once it's out, perhaps.  I know you said you've worked on linking it with LG.  Sounds very promising.

I understand that Cyberboard would be some work.  Surfing around yesterday brought up a site that showed even a simple boardgame requires about 12 hours of construction.  Still can't help wondering about fiddling with a version of the empire campaign rules adapted for LG.  And, as mentioned, I believe someone has already produced a vassal to support Le Vol de l'Aigle.

As for OoBs, I've presumed that you'd set up a LG file of each side for the campaign, then just do quick edits for the troops at particular engagements, no?

[Broadsword]

I understand that Cyberboard would be some work.  Surfing around yesterday brought up a site that showed even a simple boardgame requires about 12 hours of construction. 

It's no work if you use an existing gamebox. Just download and play. But yes, creating gameboxes is another thing altogether.

As for OoBs, I've presumed that you'd set up a LG file of each side for the campaign, then just do quick edits for the troops at particular engagements, no?

Exactly. One reason I bought Napoleon at the Berezina and DL'ed that gamebox is because Berezina is already one of the battles we're supposed to get with LG. So there should be a pretty usable OOB already for any battle in that game, plus or minus some units here or there. Since Cyberboard has no AI and is just a playing aid, one can just stop playing at any point, say "OK, here's a battle I want to fight with LG" and then reset the campaign map/OOB/etc with the situation at battle's end. The longest work would be creating a map for every LG battle. But with the LG random map generator, I think (or I hope) that this might not be terribly difficult (generate a random Russian winter map and then tweak features as necessary).

[Broadsword]

Due to all these management issues, I'd prefer to play simple operational+LG PBEM campaigns with just one opponent at a time.

[gazfun]

You're quite right, DD.  Combat Mission, for example, has never spawned a workable campaign system as PBEMs usually take 4-6 weeks or so.  Far too much slow down whenever battalions go bump!  Somehow the 'Onion Wars' play on but I've not seen any other groups survive many encounters before burnout.

So, a PBEM campaign is likely to be a year's undertaking, perhaps.  Alternatively, if you're in it with a few locals (or, at least, people in nearby time zones) then the resolutions can be quicker and the whole kept rolling along.  A mate here in Melbourne has been running a French Revolutionary campaign for years using Empire Rules.  He has the same issues in a way.  The fighting with miniatures is a little like watching paint dry.  Slower, actually, as they'd meet weekly and often have to run big battles over several weeks to get them done.  Paint generally only takes a day!  LG at least promises to get battles over in one sitting, even with half-a-dozen players, allowing the campaign to get going again.  For a long time I've imagined that to be one of this games great promises.

@Gaz: I thought EiA was much more strategic in outlook.  You've trimmed it down a bit in a campaign mode to synch with LG?  It'd be a good idea to do a thread, I suppose, narrating the use of the system with LG once it's out, perhaps.  I know you said you've worked on linking it with LG.  Sounds very promising.

I understand that Cyberboard would be some work.  Surfing around yesterday brought up a site that showed even a simple boardgame requires about 12 hours of construction.  Still can't help wondering about fiddling with a version of the empire campaign rules adapted for LG.  And, as mentioned, I believe someone has already produced a vassal to support Le Vol de l'Aigle.

As for OoBs, I've presumed that you'd set up a LG file of each side for the campaign, then just do quick edits for the troops at particular engagements, no?

Yes see link here in a thread in TGHQ http://www.thegeneralshq.org/phpBBForum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1170

[Cyrano]

I've got NOTHING against EIA.  I think it's another classic labour of love that has borne better fruit than anyone dared hope.  I'm simply trying to imagine the level of dedication you'd have to have to use EIA as the operational layer and HWLG as the tactical, all by e-mail.

I've run a lot of campaigns in my day and have learned the hard way that everybody says they want chrome and detail but, in the event, they head for the hills the minute the game goes south on them.

I've personally played four boardgame campaigns of EIA and two of them melted when those getting the short end suddenly discovered other committments.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

[gazfun]

I've got NOTHING against EIA.  I think it's another classic labour of love that has borne better fruit than anyone dared hope.  I'm simply trying to imagine the level of dedication you'd have to have to use EIA as the operational layer and HWLG as the tactical, all by e-mail.

I've run a lot of campaigns in my day and have learned the hard way that everybody says they want chrome and detail but, in the event, they head for the hills the minute the game goes south on them.

I've personally played four boardgame campaigns of EIA and two of them melted when those getting the short end suddenly discovered other committments.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

Well try the new PC version EiA EiANW by Matrix Games and you may be reinspired.
I beleive I have eluded to this in my past posts, so move on! and stop being negative, Im nearly in tears 
If you had players that have run for the hills I feel sorry for you, but it also means there is something alse wrong with your set up.
I think we need to move on, this is going in circles

[Gunner24]

The only thing to do, is to do it, and see what happens !.

For what it's worth I've found you CAN get small numbers of interested people that stay the course with things like this, but it is oh so hard and someone needs to spend a massive amount of time keeping things on track, if they do that - then there is a chance.

On the "negative" side I would wager this is a subject that is a lot easier to chat about than "do", as many things in life are.

Good luck all.

[Double Deuce]

The only thing to do, is to do it, and see what happens !.

For what it's worth I've found you CAN get small numbers of interested people that stay the course with things like this, but it is oh so hard and someone needs to spend a massive amount of time keeping things on track, if they do that - then there is a chance.

On the "negative" side I would wager this is a subject that is a lot easier to chat about than "do", as many things in life are.

Probably the most accurate assessment yet. 

[Gunner24]

Thanks, some might say it's a bit "negative" but I prefer to call it being honest !......In part it's based on my ntw2/CB MP experience here : http://ntw2.wikispaces.com/ which was the best entertainment I've had in the old ntw2 MP Community.  It worked with a small group by people who all worked hard to make it work, this will be what's needed for any such LG Campaign or other form of extended play, rather than one off battles.

For myself, the biggest map in LG, in MP mode (or perhaps PBEM) will be almost like a mini campaign in it's self....it will provide all I need, but IF someone makes a Campaign type game before JMM does, and it's easy to understand and run, I may request to join in.

[anvil]

I would like to suggest this site for a great computer moderated campaign game.  Clinton is very open to input and updates his software on a regular basis.  there is also a yahoo site.  I have used his system since "the days of Dos 6.22"   

anvil