Is this still in development?

[glaude1955]

One area that could be improved is the corps selection.  As all selections are the same image, it is difficult to know which is which without scrolling over.  Below is a mock up I've made of a system that would better represent the information in a graphical manner.  It would also be nice to have the historical figures depicted in the game.

Very good idea Formaldehyde.   
I already saw it in NCP (Ageod). Pictures (with their author's agreeable authorization) be able to easily be include in Histwar.

Très bonne idèe Formaldehyde.
J'ai déjà vu cela dans NCP (Ageod). Les images (avec l'aimable autorisation de leur auteur) pourraient facilement être incluses dans Histwar.

[Hook]

BEGIN RANT

Why can't we use the same camera controls that Sims 3 uses?  I mean, it's certainly what *I'm* used to, and considering that any given expansion pack for Sims 2 or Sims 3 probably sold more individual copies than everything in the entire Total War franchise, these camera controls would certainly be more popular and would have a lot more people who are used to them.

Holding down the right mouse button allows you to move the location of the camera while looking in the same direction.  Holding down the middle mouse button allows you to rotate the camera around the current viewpoint and raise and lower it.  Moving the mouse wheel allows you to zoom in and out.

There is an options setting that allows edge scrolling to be turned on or off.  Since most of the mouse action will be away from the edges of the screen, accidentally moving the camera doesn't happen often.  If you had to use the mouse at the edges of the screen, this would be a problem.

Left clicking on a Sim's portrait in the list (or for HWLG a unit in the unit list) will select that Sim, left click again and the camera centers on it.  Right clicking on the portrait will both select and lock the camera on the Sim (like the F6 key does in HWLG). 

Pressing the TAB key toggles "cameraman" mode where moving the mouse looks around and you move the camera and raise and lower it with the keyboard.  This is very useful for movie making.  There was a "headbone" cam view (similar to the F5 view in HWLG) in pre-release versions of Sims 2 where the camera was attached to the head of the selected Sim and followed their movements, and you could look around by moving the mouse, but that was removed before release.

Of course, some of these would need to be optimized because the needs of HWLG are different from the needs of Sims 3.  It does have the advantage that everything done with the camera during normal play is handled by the mouse.

END RANT

I don't expect any of this to be implemented, but it illustrates an alternate viewpoint.  However, there is one thing I'd like to see in HWLG eventually:

The speed of camera movement or rotation is controlled by how far the mouse is moved from the spot where the center or right button is clicked rather than from the center of the screen.  This gives the movement a more natural feel and you don't have to keep track of where the mouse is before you press one of the buttons.

Hook

[fishfox]

Honestly Sims 3 camera control is fine too haha.  I do think they keyboard should be a camera control option though as it is faster - period.  It's maybe not for some people, but it's not uncommon for games to have redundant controls.  Most view controls in games can be either mouse or keyboard controlled for the very reason that some people would rather use the mouse.  But yeah, the Sims is still a tried and true UI that is pretty seamless. 

I wouldn't be surprised though if many HWLG players had played more TW than Sims haha though hah.  There's a bit more crossover in appeal, I would think.  Still though, another valid proposition.

[Cpl Steiner]

When I was doing a "Web Development" course I was instructed to always remember that most of the time users are on other websites so you should not make your website function in a totally different way to any other. In other words, big sites tend to set the rules about UI issues and the smaller sites follow.

This is true for game design as well, so I agree with the other posters in saying that the UI should be based on that of the Total War series or the Sims 3 or any big game for that matter which has already come up with a well-used solution to a given problem such as camera movement. For instance, why do we have to press shift to strafe left and right? Most games strafe the camera left and right if the mouse is moved to the bottom edge of the screen, and pan if it is moved to the top or middle edge of the screen. It's an elegent solution in my opinion, so why not use it?

[Hook]

I do think they keyboard should be a camera control option though as it is faster - period.

There is a keyboard camera control in HWLG.  The arrow keys will move the camera.  There is considerable room for improvement in the camera motion, however.  At least the mouse gives you fine control over how fast the camera moves, which is essential in a game like HWLG.

When I was doing a "Web Development" course I was instructed to always remember that most of the time users are on other websites so you should not make your website function in a totally different way to any other.

People aren't playing two games simultaneously.

I agree with the other posters in saying that the UI should be based on that of the Total War series or the Sims 3 or any big game for that matter which has already come up with a well-used solution to a given problem such as camera movement.

Sims 3 would be a bad example, actually.  If we're going to change how the controls work to match some other game, we should be looking at the only other examples of first person commander games in existence:  The Take Command series.  Of course, with only two of these out there, I don't think they set much of a precedent.  Right now, the HWLG controls represent 1/3 of the total number of first person commander games on the market.

For instance, why do we have to press shift to strafe left and right? Most games strafe the camera left and right if the mouse is moved to the bottom edge of the screen, and pan if it is moved to the top or middle edge of the screen. It's an elegent solution in my opinion, so why not use it?

Please tell me you're kidding.  No one really does that, do they?  That's possibly the worst idea I've ever heard.  

Hook

[Cpl Steiner]

Please tell me you're kidding.  No one really does that, do they? That's possibly the worst idea I've ever heard.

That's how the Total War games do it if I recall correctly and it works perfectly well.

[EDIT]

P.S. - Judging by your reaction I think you've got the wrong idea from my description.

To reiterate:

Move mouse to left edge of screen near the bottom (e.g. about 7 or 8 o'clock position) - strafe left
Move mouse to left edge of screen higher than the bottom (e.g. about 9 -11 o'clock position) - pan left

[Hook]

No, it's still the worst idea I've ever heard.  Sorry.

If that's how Total War does it, I'm glad JMM came up with a better way.  Even if TW players will have to get used to a different system.

Hook

[Cpl Steiner]

No, it's still the worst idea I've ever heard.  Sorry.

If that's how Total War does it, I'm glad JMM came up with a better way.  Even if TW players will have to get used to a different system.

Hook

Have you actually tried it?

"there are none so blind as those who will not see"

[Gunner24]

If that's how Total War does it

My TW makes use of the up, down, left and right arrows on the keyboard, I find this perfect, I can move the camera with my left hand fingers while using the mouse with my right hand, I can not see any better way than that.  If I use the mouse to "do" something how can I also use it to move the camera - it can only do one thing at a time.

If that feature is improved in the final release (it's very jerky in the demo) then I'll be very happy.

[Cpl Steiner]

Some games use the "WADS" keys to track the camera forward, backward, left and right, and the "QE" keys to pan the camera left and right. That works very well to.

[Mooncabbage]

Some games use the "WADS" keys to track the camera forward, backward, left and right, and the "QE" keys to pan the camera left and right. That works very well to.

This is usually the best system, as the left hand sits comfortably on the left side of the keyboard by convention, and the right (mouse) hand would normally rest on the JKL; row, as in touch typing. This is the reason most games use WASD + QE for camera/movement. It also ties in quite well rith RT controlling time and other things.

Hook's point regarding conventional camera systems is valid, however you have to look at what is established to work, and what most of your potential audience is going to be used to. So the TW series is a good example of what to use. You don't need to be religious about it however. The primary problem with the current camera system is that it requires you to use the mouse. Moving the mouse to the edge of the screen is fine, but you shouldn't HAVE to use the mouse to move the camera.

As for HWLG being a First Person Commander Game, personally I play from the map views not the commander view. It's a nice touch but I've always found it overly restrictive.

[pcelt]

I should like to agree with Cpl Steiners point about using bottom  mouse to  lower screen edge  to  strafe view and  to upper edge to rotate view  (mouse speed related to view change speed.) This system has been used in Combat Mission games over a long period and is the easiest and most comforable method I have used----much more convenient than having to hunt for a key press in combination with mouse move in order to effect strafe view.

[Hook]

As for HWLG being a First Person Commander Game, personally I play from the map views not the commander view. It's a nice touch but I've always found it overly restrictive.

Except that it's the whole purpose of the game.

I tend to play from the map view as well, but a full fog of war wouldn't show anything on the map but the last reported locations of your corps commanders.  If you want more information, you have to move the CinC to the location and look yourself using the F5 or F6 views.

Hook

[Mooncabbage]

Definately needs a Telescope then

What commander worth his salt wouldn't have a good eyeglass?

PS. I posted this in the Grenadiers forum earlier, as my suggestion for the Regimental Unit Card layout. Thought some of the non-preorder people might like to see it and make comments.

[Hook]

Definately needs a Telescope then

AMEN!!

The default zoom in those views is very wide angle.  You can zoom in quite a bit, but the resulting view is about what you'd see with your naked eye.  The game looks quite good in that case.  But it needs a further zoom level for a telescope view, most definitely.

You can even zoom in the F3 view, by holding down the control key and moving the mouse up on the screen.  This is not the best way to do it, but it works.  Unfortunately, the game does not remember your zoom level if you leave the 3D view, defaulting to the full wide angle.

Hook