"Runaway" stats.

[Hook]

Routing isn't a permanent condition.  It's more like a "forced back" result in other games.  They will come back and resume fighting in most cases.

I've seen units stand and fight until almost destroyed.  I've seen units frightened by being ordered to march.  There are a lot of possible results and the range is huge.  The game will, at some point, duplicate almost anything from any true story you've heard.  It will not, however, duplicate anything you can possibly imagine, and it will not usually duplicate some general's fantasy, like destroying an unshaken square by throwing cavalry into it.

Runaways probably includes all units that have "escaped".  These guys have left the field, but will be available for subsequent battles.  Units can't continue fighting forever.  These are what some other games call "routs".  They've routed off the battlefield and are no longer combat effective.

Hook

[Gunner24]

Runaways probably includes all units that have "escaped".

 
I'm sure that is the case.

These guys have left the field, but will be available for subsequent battles.

 
Yes, better to have been saved for another day, no doubt.

Units can't continue fighting forever.

We are talking about a day here. 

These are what some other games call "routs".  They've routed off the battlefield and are no longer combat effective.

I would like to see these guys "rallied" in the rear and re-form, even if not capable of fighting again.

Do you all think 30% in the screen shot in the first post is too high for BOTH sides ?. 

[Count von Csollich]

do you all think 30% in the screen shot in the first post is too high for BOTH sides ?.  I would not be surprised by this figure for the side that was well beaten.  

for most of the battles I would say yes...

In real life, if a whole Division "routed" what did this mean for that Division after the battle ?.

nothing special if this Division belonged to the victorious side: they would simply reassemble, regroup if necessary and then be available for combat after ressupplying and perhaps a few "morale rising" days off

if the division was on the losing side it could have well ment that most of the stragglers were caught after the battle or in the process of the following days/weeks as they lost their will to fight and would surrender at the first enemy contact - the reference would be the losses of tzhe Prussians after the battle of Jena. In the period after the battle they lost about the same amount of men again as they were unbale to reorganize and put up any organized resistance (i don't quite remember the correct numbers but they were well in the tens of thousands

[Count von Csollich]

I've seen units stand and fight until almost destroyed.  I've seen units frightened by being ordered to march.  There are a lot of possible results and the range is huge.  The game will, at some point, duplicate almost anything from any true story you've heard.  It will not, however, duplicate anything you can possibly imagine, and it will not usually duplicate some general's fantasy, like destroying an unshaken square by throwing cavalry into it.

I can second that, same things happened to me and I was very impressed - and i totally understand that some outstanding things that maybe happened once can't reoccur in that game!!
Except for the heroic Charge of the Light Brigade at Balaclava happened to me many times already

Runaways probably includes all units that have "escaped".  These guys have left the field, but will be available for subsequent battles.  Units can't continue fighting forever.  These are what some other games call "routs".  They've routed off the battlefield and are no longer combat effective.

That's very interesting, I haven't thought of that - this would of course explain the huge number!!! Thanks for the explanation!

[Franciscus]

Just a thought... Is there any chance that in statistics every unit that routed at least once (even if later rallyed and fought again) is being cumulatively summed up ??

[Hook]

Units can't continue fighting forever.

We are talking about a day here.

Actually, we're talking about hours here.  Units can only stand in combat for a certain amount of time before they're going to be ineffective.

These are what some other games call "routs".  They've routed off the battlefield and are no longer combat effective.

I would like to see these guys "rallied" in the rear and re-form, even if not capable of fighting again

It's happening, just off the map.  There's no reason to render a huge mass of units near the rally point/lines of communication if they're not going to be going back into the battle. Just think of it as, the rally point is off the map.

If they don't leave the map, you'll end up chasing them all over the battlefield at some point.  We used to do that in Sid Meier's Gettysburg a lot.

Do you all think 30% in the screen shot in the first post is too high for BOTH sides ?

I think if you divide the number of runaways by the number of units out of the map from a previous analysis screen to get the number of runaway men per unit, you'll find the number are more reasonable.

If we rephrase your question to be, "Do I think the number of units leaving the map is too high" then I have to say I'm surprised it's as low as it is.  I expect a unit to have only one or two fights in them before they are no longer effective.

Hook

[Hook]

Just a thought... Is there any chance that in statistics every unit that routed at least once (even if later rallyed and fought again) is being cumulatively summed up ??

If that was happening you'd have more runaways than original troops!

Hook

[Pariente]

Look at the « new potential » value : in the aftermath of the battle, generals gathered routed units, which are then not considered as casualties.

[CBR]

I believe it to be impossible to review every single regiment in order to get definitive parameters for their performance in battle (they might have fought bravely once and taken flight the next time...)

It certainly will be something that takes a lot of study yes, but IMO not impossible to get a reasonable understanding of it. Christopher Duffy noted how some Prussian regiments in the SYW still behaved poorly more than a year after a serious defeat. The combination of lots of recruits as well as the veterans having tasted enough blood to lose some of their confidence was most likely the reason IIRC.

Even the burned out veterans of the 95th Rifles who seems to have had enough at Waterloo and some of it can IIRC already be seen near the end of the Peninsular War.

But ok enough of that...I'm not suggesting we go through all 1100+ regiments of LG 

A system where external factors (feeling outnumbered/outclassed, flanks threatened or supported etc etc) adjusts the currently fixed percentage before a unit is forced back would be nice.

I've seen units stand and fight until almost destroyed

Have you seen units stand and fight beyond the expected 15-42% losses as described in the manual?

CBR

[Hook]

A system where external factors (feeling outnumbered/outclassed, flanks threatened or supported etc etc) adjusts the currently fixed percentage before a unit is forced back would be nice.

That already seems to be in the game.

Have you seen units stand and fight beyond the expected 15-42% losses as described in the manual?

Yes.  I've seen units in defensive line take 80% casualties before breaking.  Look in the Analysis for the unit that took the most loss (third from the bottom on the third screen if it's not translated from French).  Some of them are quite high.  I've got a screen shot that shows over 2100 loss for one regiment.

Hook

[CBR]

Yes.  I've seen units in defensive line take 80% casualties before breaking.  Look in the Analysis for the unit that took the most loss (third from the bottom on the third screen if it's not translated from French).  Some of them are quite high.  I've got a screen shot that shows over 2100 loss for one regiment.

Hook

Then you should report it as a bug or the manual needs a change 

If it indeed supposed to be like that, then it seems better than described in the manual and what I have seen in tests (with my obviously outdated demo)

[Hook]

Then you should report it as a bug or the manual needs a change 

If it indeed supposed to be like that, then it seems better than described in the manual and what I have seen in tests (with my obviously outdated demo)

The 2100+ loss was from the demo.  As for the manual, it would only be in error if it said units always break after XX% loss under all circumstances.  I'm not going to go looking for that, but when the current editing pass takes me to that part of the manual, I'll see if it says anything wrong.

I think a lot of things are showing up during normal play that won't show up in tests with isolated units and a lot of constraints.

Hook

[CBR]

Are you sure the 2100 loss came before it routed? If so do you have a replay of it?

I had one regiment taking 2280 but it disappeared so that explains that 100% loss. The canister bug can cut down hundreds of men in a routing unit. I have had artillery fire at a whole corps and did not see any units taking more than they should according to the manual.


CBR

[Pariente]

Yes.  I've seen units in defensive line take 80% casualties before breaking.  Look in the Analysis for the unit that took the most loss (third from the bottom on the third screen if it's not translated from French).  Some of them are quite high.  I've got a screen shot that shows over 2100 loss for one regiment.

Hook

I was playing the battle for the umpteenth time, Davout's corps had only 500 men left after having faced three ennemy corps. And their morale was still at 80 !
Its artillery fought during two hours, then, there were no canons left, and the French kept fighting while cannoballs were showering down on them.

[Gunner24]

There's no reason to render a huge mass of units near the rally point/lines of communication if they're not going to be going back into the battle. Just think of it as, the rally point is off the map.

Ahhh, yes, good point.

I think if you divide the number of runaways by the number of units out of the map from a previous analysis screen to get the number of runaway men per unit, you'll find the number are more reasonable.

I'm not so sure, the number of runaways is for the most part WHOLE units that have left the battlefield.

My point, which keeps getting missed, is :
Was it "normal" for about 30-35% of an Army (win OR lose) to be "gone" after a battle where a few thousand were killed and wounded ?.