Artillery deployment

[Hook]

Holdit, I think that you've become so intent on winning your argument that you've forgotten why we're here.  Until you figure out what we're doing here, it's not worthwhile to argue with you.  One thing you have done:  even though I think artillery is too strong FOR GAMING PURPOSES, I will resist making it weaker.

The only experts in playing HWLG are the long time beta testers, and the few experts in Napoleonic tactical warfare haven't said much.  There are plenty of "gaming" experts, but experience in Tetris, TW or tic-tac-toe doesn't count.

I know where to find the real Napoleonic experts online, and when the demo is updated I'll be doing just that.  If adjustments are needed to the game, they'll be able to tell us with some authority.    From everything I've seen so far in the game, JMM is a Napoleonic expert.

Hook

[lodi57]

If it is historically correct that artillery deployed 100-200 meters in front of the infantry then I'm ok with it, I'm just wondering if it's deliberate or not.

French artillery used to deploy 100-200 meters from infantry and sometimes more.

[Darsh]

I don't find the artillery too powerful, indeed the power of artillery is well represented for the Napoleonic era and a front charge is suicidal.
My only grip is with cavalery who try to flank rarely the canons and prefer to make a suicidal charge.

[Taff]

Just to complicate things even more. Russian Infantry in square Horse Battery pulls up along side opens fire on enemy troops. I am not aware that gave any orders that would have caused this to happen but it is realistic. So do foot batteries go so far out & do horse guns have a great freedom of action?javascript:void(0);

[Hook]

My only grip is with cavalery who try to flank rarely the canons and prefer to make a suicidal charge.

Watch the cavalry when they're going  to attack the artillery in 3D view in the replay.  I've seen the cavalry move close to the guns, outside the artillery's arc of fire, and send small groups to attack each gun crew.  It's pretty impressive.  I guess sometimes the cavalry doesn't make it to safety when they approach the guns.

While I remember seeing instances of artillery advancing 500 yards during a Halt for Artillery Preparation, I've been looking through my saved games an haven't found any examples of it.  Usually the guns deploy about 100 yards in front of the corps.  It may just depend on the artillery commander.

Hook

[Gunner24]

I don't think we will get this answer untill we get MP under way, then you will know very soon if artillery is too strong or not, people will start to get as much artillery as possible into their Corps, if it's deemed to be too weak then they will soon select fewer cannons, if the balance is just right (as we all hope) then you will see a reasonable number of cannons.

I don't think we have enough info yet from the demo to be sure one way or the other, what I do see is artillery being used for many hours of battle time and the other side is not vaporised !.....so mabye there is no problem ?????????????.

[englishoo7]

I imagined great attack columns, firefights, kocking the enemy off a feature!

Do I have to wait until all the enemy Artillery are dead before I can do these things? 

Would not Artillery be better if it 'weakened' strong regiments tipping the combat in one side or the others favour and routed already weak units preventing them from getting into action?

[englishoo7]

 I am sure someone here will know the specifics... I read somewhere that during the retreat from Moscow one of the Imperial Guard Divisions/Corps (Young Guard perhaps?) got caught or cut off and although the Russians did not feel confident enough to take them on up close with their Infantry, they did stand off and bombard them. The Guard stood their ground and took it for hours. They did not rout after a few minutes?
 I am more and convinced convinced that Artillery is too powerful.

[lodi57]

I am sure someone here will know the specifics... I read somewhere that during the retreat from Moscow one of the Imperial Guard Divisions/Corps (Young Guard perhaps?) got caught or cut off and although the Russians did not feel confident enough to take them on up close with their Infantry, they did stand off and bombard them. The Guard stood their ground and took it for hours. They did not rout after a few minutes?

It was the Young Guard and it was destroyed that day.

[LNDavout]

Hours ? to be honest. Think about it m8. So the question is what kind of art was that? Or what kind of bombartment? To read something is one thing. To really know what happend is different.

Hours in the face of 12 or 8 pounders ? At what rate of fire? What force did pin them ? What formation did they use?

A lot info is needed to say anything about this action...

[Gunner24]

Each day I become more certain there are less "bugs" than some of us first thought.

I enjoy it more every time, it's such a "new" type of simulation we need some time to adjust to it.

I think the 4Ib horse artillery is the most guilty of racing off to far ahead, even if it's into trouble, perhaps that can be changed with the doctrin settings to keep them closer to safety.

I've been looking at this today, and I also checked this site : http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/artillery_tactics.htm#_moving_deploying_limbering_artillery
and it would appear artillery would need to be at LEAST 100 yards ahead of the line troops.

[Hook]

Gunner24, that's an excellent site.  I think I've read almost everything there.  Lots of good information.

If you've found that it is indeed the 4 pounders moving so far ahead of the troops, then it's probably because they have a short range and have to move forward to get into effective range to fire.  The only reason I could think of for a 12 pounder to move far ahead of the troops is because there's a better firing position there.

Hook

[von Döbeln]

If the artillery deploy in a historic manner (100+ seems to be historically correct) and the unit is not in too much peril then I'm satisfied with that. But when a unit (probably horse artillery then) makes it's own solo "charge" against the enemy line leaving all support hundreds of meters behind and deploying closer to the enemy than to its own line it feels a bit over the top - but maybe it is all in order and I'm just overly cautious.   I'll keep a lookout if it happens again and then I can e-mail you the save game JMM if you want to have a look at it.

LvD

[JMM]

'll keep a lookout if it happens again and then I can e-mail you the save game JMM if you want to have a look at it.
LvD

Yes.. Waiting for this abnormal behaviour   

JMM

PS : Could you add your alias on the email with a short comment about the issue.

[Pariente]

Hmmm, odd comment to make....the TW games are well know to be very poor as far as historical accuracy is concerned, but they do provide some brillent MP games (which is all I'm interested in) and some of the mods are far superior to the in the box game, the TROM Empire mod has very powerfull artillery and "we" are well used to having serious problems over coming that, in several different way, anyway, if you read what I posted you will see I fully understand how strong artillery was, but if you get loads of people posting "arty is too strong" in the game you need to listen to that comment......I have no clue if it's too strong or not yet as the demo appears to have some problems with it.
I would expect most people on this forum would agree with this, it's not rocket science.

Good evening.

I maybe got too much feverish about artillery and respect to history. I apologize for this. But, I don't believe making artillery weaker would make battles more interesting. Artillery, cavalry and infantry may be more balanced, even if I think strenghts are faithful to history and gameplay does not suffer from this.

Actually, I wanted you to notice dealing with difficulties is the real challenge of a battle ; reducing all differences between units, nations... would lead HW to the Imperial Glory's unsuccess.

I'm not campaigning against making the game more reachable and improving the gameplay, I'm just worried about the lethal slope to arcade games.

I'm sure JMM will reach a good compromise between gameplay and respect to history (which has already determined numerous game's details).

Friendly,
Pariente.