What were you expecting?

[RichardG]

Well, I think I'll wait to see a demo of the finished game. This is obviously a demo of an unfinished beta.

[crazy canuck]

This is the first demo that I have tried that was missing so many important elements like the AI.

We all knew the graphics were not the selling feature of this game - it was the gameplay itself.

With the Call of Duty demos, you played one complete level, with all the horns and whistles. That was the demo. It left you wanting more. This demo does not do that.

Many potential gamers will be turned off by this demo and will not buy the game.

 For being in development for 2 years, yes this demo is very disapointing.

But I truely believe that JMM has an excellent game up his sleeve and when the full version comes out, we will not be disapointed!

 

[antiochus]

 Ok on another forum I think I may have found the answer.
 I did not play the tutorials but jumped straight into the battle and the " missing " AI kicked my butt. Apparently the problems most people are seeing are in the tutorials. Maybe that is why I saw none of the problems that are being reported.

[Zonks]

The fact that the demo has issues is nothing new, I'll buy the game anyway, I know that these issues will get sorted, this is not some greedy Corporation here, it’s a guy that’s dedicated a substantial amount of his life to this game and jumping up and down about the demo is not going to help, either show a bit of maturity or go back to ETW, its unbelievable how predictable the internet community can be.

[Gunner24]

I did not play the tutorials but jumped straight into the battle and the " missing " AI kicked my butt. Apparently the problems most people are seeing are in the tutorials. Maybe that is why I saw none of the problems that are being reported.

Hmmm, I've played mostly the battle, that's where I have seen most of the AI "funny" stuff happening.....but we need not worry if the game has a differnt AI to the demo.

[Montecuccoli]

Regarding Grand Tactica AI in the version the testers have now (that will be upgraded more) here i enclose a picture regarding an AI plan... i did nothing just opened a battle and activated the Grand Tactical AI, here you can see the French Plan.

Absolutely i did nothing just activated the AI. 

[CBR]

I was expecting a demo that showed why I should buy the game. Not a open beta that seems to have been thrown together without any testing just to keep a deadline.

At least it showed the basic concepts of how to command an army and that looks nice but OTOH we already knew how it would be like from videos.

I have no problems with the graphics, there could always be a few tweaks with for example the smoke, but all in all nothing that would prevent me from enjoying the game.

What I did not expect was a combat and morale system that appears to be rather abstract: either a whole regiment fight as one or rout as one, yes even gets captured as one. And with Line regiments routing at just 5%, or whatever low value it is, it makes me want to stay away from the 3D map and just focus on the 2D map because combat is rather ugly to watch.

I'd have to install the game again to be sure, but IIRC Fields of Glory from '94 also used regiments while later games based on Sid Meier's engine or Take Command uses battalions for combat/morale.

So even assuming all the bugs are cleared out, overall LG is a bit of a letdown as I expected more from this game.

[Hook]

Regarding Grand Tactical AI in the version the testers have now...

Your screen says "Tactical Plan" where ours says "Normal".  Is there a special way to activate that in our version, or is that something totally new that we don't have yet?

Things are looking good.

Hook

[Hook]

I was expecting a demo that showed why I should buy the game. Not an open beta that seems to have been thrown together without any testing just to keep a deadline.

You were expecting a standard commercial game.  Forget everything you know about commercially produced games;  this is a whole different kind of animal.  It's exactly like having your friend who lives down the street make a game in his spare time, with no outside help and no one paying him a salary to do it.

If that doesn't shed enough light on the process, then you might try making your own game.  If you start now, you can have a Waterloo game by the time the 200th anniversary of the battle rolls around.

Hook

[CBR]

I don't see why. They have no big and mean SEGA who needs a release to fit the fiscal year as we saw with ETW. There was nothing that prevented them from testing this demo before releasing it. The issues are so obvious that even a few hours of testing would have shown it.

Instead we saw a hasty release that is now getting a lot of heat on various forums. All for the sake of keeping up with a deadline.

edit: and no I don't make my own games but have been involved in mods for total war games. My stuff never went public without internal testing.

[Gunner24]

Some people who would never have liked this game, no matter what, are having a fine old time saying it's no good, if the demo had been better that might not have happened, so for me I would have to agree, the demo needed testing, then the problems would have been seen and we would have had to wait a bit longer......as we might have to now anyway, but at least the "reputation" would not have suffered in some forums as it appears to have done now, a pity.

[englishoo7]

I suppose I would have to agree that the demo needed testing.

BUT.... I think (and I am only guessing) there was a lot of expectations not to miss another deadline and people like me after, waiting so long and being giving severel missed deadlines, really wanted to see the game. I hope JMM just put 'something out there' and this is not an exact replica of what the full game is like? After running the Demo today I feel a bit more positive, I think I saw flashes of brilliance and felt for the first time the satisfaction of a plan set in motion!

(Crosses fingers).

[antiochus]

 My original comments were a bit to hard and not really aimed at this forum that much. I had seen the demo getting blasted by people that obviously had not read the manual or tried to work with the demo at all. These were people who obviously thought that Age of Empires was a war or even a strategy game. They wanted total control of everything at once. When someone tried to explain giving orders and the lag time involved they thought it was just so stupid. I wish this had been a teenager forum but these were wargame forums.Sorry if I came out to harsh but I don't see the problems that are being reported and I'm in awe at watching an AI corps commander work compared to one in an HPS game.

[Hook]

edit: and no I don't make my own games but have been involved in mods for total war games. My stuff never got went public without internal testing.

Your stuff wasn't 200,000 lines of code, either.

The game WAS tested.  But with a small number of beta testers, eventually they all start doing things in a way that bypasses the bugs.  It takes new testers to find that the old bugs are still there.  That's what we're all doing now.  Personally, I'd rather be part of this open beta that to wait another 6 months to a year to get anything at all.

Yeah, the demo is going to take a hit in certain circles because of problems.  Those same people would have bashed the game no matter what because the graphics aren't modern enough, or that the interface isn't as nice as they'd like.  They always find something.  

We could argue about whether the demo should have been released in its current state, but there were political reasons for that, not because of some deadline.  Since it WAS released, it's a moot point.  Might as well make the most of it.  I personally believe that a demo should be essentially bug-free, but we have a special case here.

Don't bash the beta testers.  They've done a great job.  Don't bash JMM either.  He's giving us what might be the last serious Napoleonic game for a long time, if ever.  

And you have to admit, when things are working right, the game is pretty exciting.  Hang in there, it'll be done eventually.

Hook

[Ras]

In the mean time JMM has admitted that the demo wasn't tested and that he probably made mistakes/ introduced new bugs while trying to meet his own deadline. The beta testers have said they're surprised to see the return of old bugs in the demo. If I understood JMM's post right, then there may even be a new demo.
I suppose any member of this forum is really interested in the game and will "hang in there" but if we as hardcore fans hold back opinions and stop pointing out issues, we might not get the game we want.