Wish List

[Gunner24]

Sorry, but if you could move from unit to unit to see with your own eyes what's happening in 3D, it would violate the entire design of a game like LG.

On the 2d map you will see units that your CiC can not see even when you have the camera locked onto the CiC.  I'm saying you should be able to see those same units on the 3d map as well as the 2d map.

The way it is (and should be), in full FoW you see what your CinC sees.

OK, that's fine if that's what you want, but as of now that does not happen, on the 2d map you see more units than your CiC can see.

If you want more info, you have to send an aide and wait for a report, or move to that area and take a look for yourself.

You can see on the 2d map, any unit that your men can see, that's why you send out Cav on scouting missions - to spot the enemy, which will then be shown on the 2d map.

Look at the two pics above, the Russian units on pic2 are spotted by the scouting Cav, not the CiC, but you get to see them on the 2d map, so why should you not be able to see them on the 3d map ?.

If we go with what you say the ONLY units shown on the 2d map will be those DIRECTLY seen by the CiC, again, that's fine if that's what you want, but it is not the case now.

[KO|Druid]

Can't see the pics, but when I've played full fow on patched demo2, the nme units displayed on 2d map are "non-reliable" spottings..(sort of greyed-out in colour).
I have then checked in 3d, by changing my options, and the units spotted on the 2d map are rarely in the place they appear to be.

[Gunner24]

units displayed on 2d map are "non-reliable" spottings

But who spotted them ?, the CiC ?, or scouting Cav ?, or advancing Inf ?. 

The point is that units marked on the 2d map are not seen ONLY by the CiC when the locked camera is on him.  If they were there would be no need for sending out scouts, you would have to use the CiC to scout, IF he was the only unit to be able to see anything.

In the pictures you can not see (don't know why) the first one shows NO spotted enemy units, pic 2 shows a few Russians who were spotted by scouting Cav moving forward, the CiC never moved.

[Broadsword]

Gunner,
I think we're actually in agreement. I agree that in 3D, one should see only what the CinC sees (not every unit in the game). But on 2D, one should see any units spotted, whether by the CinC directly or by reports from friendly units. FOW settings should make these markers more or less reliable, depending on one's preference.

[lodi57]

But who spotted them ?, the CiC ?, or scouting Cav ?, or advancing Inf ?. 

The point is that units marked on the 2d map are not seen ONLY by the CiC when the locked camera is on him.  If they were there would be no need for sending out scouts, you would have to use the CiC to scout, IF he was the only unit to be able to see anything.

In the pictures you can not see (don't know why) the first one shows NO spotted enemy units, pic 2 shows a few Russians who were spotted by scouting Cav moving forward, the CiC never moved.

In your example you have to consider this as a drawing report. I explain : your CinC can't see over the hill, he sends a cav recon, the cav comes back with information (instead of writting or telling : we saw this or that there, they draw what they saw). Now tell me if after looking at the draw your CinC is more able to see over or through the hill ? I don't think so. He has just been told that at the indicate place the cav saw a certain amount of troops.

So, except the case of recon, all the units (friendly or ennemy) that are represented on 2D or 3D map are the one that the CinC can see (locked or unlocked).

Remember that the player is the CinC even if he is locked or not. So, if the CinC wants to see what happened in a sector, out of his sight, where some of his corps are engaged with ennemy, he must move himself to a position he can do.

Now, if the CinC see some units in 2D map and not in 3D map (or vice versa), that's abnormal.

[ess1]

Should't the 2D view show unite reported to the CinC?  Surely the whole point of FOW is that CinC has to await sighting reports?
If this is not happening it is a bug in IMHO.

Those who wish to play with the kind of all encompassing views other games have is not for HSLW.

[Gunner24]

Now, if the CinC see some units in 2D map and not in 3D map (or vice versa), that's abnormal.

This is the problem, if you DON'T lock the view to the CiC, you can see every unit on the 3d map, but not on the 2d map.

Is this a fault, a bug, or designed and correct as intended, I don't know.

[Hook]

This is the problem, if you DON'T lock the view to the CiC, you can see every unit on the 3d map, but not on the 2d map.

Is this a fault, a bug, or designed and correct as intended, I don't know.

If we have fog of war set to display only the last known locations of friendly units on the 2D map, where should we display them on the 3D map?  We can either display them where they actually are, as is currently being done, or display them in their last known locations, in which case the 3D view is a lie. 

Hook

[Gunner24]

Good question......this is not a simple concept !.

As far as I can tell the 3d map should SHOW all formations that can be seen by the other side, in their REAL positions......so if French A can see Russian B then they are shown on the 2d map and the 3d map......the last reported position (on the 2d map) need show nothing on the 3d map, as all the 3d map should show is REAL positions of troops that can be seen by the other side.

[Gunner24]

Here's a crazy idea, only thinking out loud, I don't know if it's good or bad, I'm sure someone will tell me :

A split screen, the top showing the 2d map and the bottom showing the CiC 3d view !. 

Or it could be a little window with the CiC 3d view in it !.....I said it was crazy.

[Count von Csollich]

Here's a crazy idea, only thinking out loud, I don't know if it's good or bad, I'm sure someone will tell me :

A split screen, the top showing the 2d map and the bottom showing the CiC 3d view !. 

Or it could be a little window with the CiC 3d view in it !.....I said it was crazy.

like in Silent Hunter III the event camera?

[Formaldehyde]

One area that could be an exploit in MP is the ability to move the HQ around it's deployment area and see what the enemy dispositions are.  To reproduce what I'm talking about, open any scenario, go to 2D view, drag the CinC HQ unit forward as far as possible and along that axis.  You should be able to see most of the enemy placements. 

If possible, it would be good to have full FoW during the setup phase.  If this is too much time to code, a simple blackout of the enemy area would work.  This could be a simple black jpeg that covers the opposing area until the "W" key is hit.

[Count von Csollich]

One area that could be an exploit in MP is the ability to move the HQ around it's deployment area and see what the enemy dispositions are.  To reproduce what I'm talking about, open any scenario, go to 2D view, drag the CinC HQ unit forward as far as possible and along that axis.  You should be able to see most of the enemy placements. 

If possible, it would be good to have full FoW during the setup phase.  If this is too much time to code, a simple blackout of the enemy area would work.  This could be a simple black jpeg that covers the opposing area until the "W" key is hit.

I've used that a lot, because you should have a vague idea of what the enemy dispositions are, before deploying your own corps accordingly, I mean you won't see their reserves anyway as the stay far behind the line...wouldn't you say?

[Hook]

I haven't found this "recon by commander" during the setup phase to be very useful.  After all, we know those guys are there already.  If they've already deployed for movement, I might see which direction they're going.  Full fog of war is in effect during that period, it's just that the CinC has a really long sight range.

Count von Csollich, if you've used this a lot, can you tell if the AI does their final deployment before you start the battle?  I'm still trying to figure out if they deploy the moment you start the battle or if they wait until you deploy to choose their battle plan.

Hook

[Count von Csollich]

Count von Csollich, if you've used this a lot, can you tell if the AI does their final deployment before you start the battle?  I'm still trying to figure out if they deploy the moment you start the battle or if they wait until you deploy to choose their battle plan.
Hook

Yeah...they were already deployed when I made this "CinC marching up and down the square " I think that this is most helpfull if you play with an historical OOB because if you make out a Corps Commander during this face, or some special unit, you willl know where the hammer stroke will fall hardest and can deploy accordingly...and this doesn't change the realism because i.e. at Friedland Napoleon, after having arrived at the scene, deployed his upcoming corps very carefully in order to not give the Russians any chance to get out of this mess they had manouvered into...and he could only do this because he knew the Russians had overseen in their deployment that there was a stream running through the field cutting their army in half...