Evolution and time

[Lord of Khorne]

Greetings!

I have lurked here for a while, anticipating the release of your current projects, with great anticipation.

My question(s) concern how you will show the evolutions of the units as they
maneuver on the battlefield.

Will you show the companies move individually and properly as they deploy from column into line and as they ploy back into column or will it be an instantaneous
transistion from one to the other?

For me, correct timing is very important in any pre-modern tactical wargame.  

For example, I have 2 squadrons of cavalry that I want to attack an infantry battalion.  I want to charge them _only_ if they are not in square.  So, I give the charge order as I see them in line....  

Do the infantry then immediately change from line to square or is there a time delay between the to formations and is that delay visualized graphically on my screen?

Thank you.... and keep up the good work.

[JMM]

Greetings!

I have lurked here for a while, anticipating the release of your current projects, with great anticipation.

My question(s) concern how you will show the evolutions of the units as they
maneuver on the battlefield.

Will you show the companies move individually and properly as they deploy from column into line and as they ploy back into column or will it be an instantaneous
transistion from one to the other?

For me, correct timing is very important in any pre-modern tactical wargame.  

All things take time.. all transitions take one minut so you can see the compagnies of batailion go to their place for each formation.(march, line, column of division / peloton, square) In more, some regiments can use one compagny of tirailleurs (skirmish).

For example, I have 2 squadrons of cavalry that I want to attack an infantry battalion.  I want to charge them _only_ if they are not in square.  So, I give the charge order as I see them in line....  

In fact, the colonel of regiment takes the decision and charge only if he thinks he can destroy the square.. So, you can send an order but the AI decides to do or no  :wink: If the colonel thinks it's not possible, he sends a request to his chief of corps to get a compagny of artillery. If there isn't any canons, he takes a new decision with a new low decision level : charge or not that is a question.

All these mecanisms are controled by the AI. You are the BIG CHIEF.

Do the infantry then immediately change from line to square or is there a time delay between the to formations and

the regiment changes from formation to square when there is a threath in a short range. It's not very easy for an unit to surprendre anoter unit (except for light infantry hidden (lurked ?? )  in the plantation : to avoid that, use the tirailleurs    )

is that delay visualized graphically on my screen?

Sorry for my poor english but I am no sure to understand.. you mean there is a graphic to show the different delays.. for example 2 minuts to change from line to square or 1 minuts to change from column to line : NO ?? or there is a delay to display the change from formation to square. The display shows the real situation of each entity in real time.

Thank you.... and keep up the good work.

Thank you to you
JMM

[Link]

is that delay visualized graphically on my screen?

Sorry for my poor english but I am no sure to understand.. you mean there is a graphic to show the different delays.. for example 2 minuts to change from line to square or 1 minuts to change from column to line : NO ?? or there is a delay to display the change from formation to square. The display shows the real situation of each entity in real time.
JMM

I think he mean if the troops visually change formation in the game. As they are fully animated I think it's safe to answer YES on that question.  

/Lars L.

[ffak]

But no graphics above the brigade with "2 minutes before square" counter writed  :wink:

You see in real time the brigade making the square but you can not predict to time it will take.

[Lord of Khorne]

So, if I understand you correctly, battalions will manuever by peloton.

Thus, if an infantry unit is threatened by local enemy cavalry, they will attempt to form square and this change of formation will take 1 minute of game time and will be visually represeted on the screen as the individual pelotons take their proper places?

This brings me to another important, for me, question.

Can the change of formation times be adjusted at all?  

The reason I ask is that throughout the Wars of Napoleon each of the various participants operated on differing regulations for battalion manuevers.  A battalion in the French army from 1800 to approximately 1808 were able to form square from colonne par peloton in about 1.7 minutes ( round it to 2 minutes). If the battalion was in line formation it would first form colonne par peloton and then form square, taking about 4.7 minutes ( round up to 5).

This all changed after 1808 when the French army went from 9 companies to 6.

If this is not currently implimented, what I ask is that the doctrine editor have an option where the formation change times can be adjusted.

BTW, I highly recommend Imperial Bayonets by George Nafziger.  It has a very good analysis of combatants' battlefield maneuvers per their regulations for the period.

Also, I was not asking for a visual timer showing time to form square, but rather that I wanted to see the pelotons maneuvering properly from position to position.

Additionally, and this is off this topic, but definately another one: As I understand it, each battalion will be represented by 400 figures/models.   Can this be adjusted?

I'd like to follow the historical OOBs as closely as I can, knowing that I have to adjust for the technical limitations in the game.  So, for Austerlitz, I know that I won't be able to have a 1:1 ratio for the battle.  So, each army is proportionately adjusted downward in strength.

However, I want to have the Tirailleurs du Po in my OOB yet that unit had only 340 men present and under arms on 11 frimaire an XIV. Which is about 45% of what most of the other battalions had under arms.

Yes, I know I can't have everything, but one wants to know.

By the by, if you want a pesky Yankee as a beta tester.. I'm up for it.  I live and breathe the Wars of Napoleon... and I look forward to this game immeasurably.

[JMM]

So, if I understand you correctly, battalions will manuever by peloton.

Thus, if an infantry unit is threatened by local enemy cavalry, they will attempt to form square and this change of formation will take 1 minute of game time and will be visually represeted on the screen as the individual pelotons take their proper places?

BTW, I highly recommend Imperial Bayonets by George Nafziger.  It has a very good analysis of combatants' battlefield maneuvers per their regulations for the period.

Also, I was not asking for a visual timer showing time to form square, but rather that I wanted to see the pelotons maneuvering properly from position to position.

Oki.. Nafziger is on my shelf... Very interesting for the regulation. I have the 1791 french manual too.
No, the time is always 1 minute. All pelotons are maneuvring to get their position during this time and you can see that. By this way, I am working with napoleonic Reenactors and it's not sure the Nafziger's figures are right.. It seems the soldiers ran to get their position and they forgot the regulation because they quiclky must form the square.. and the square wasn't a real square.. but only a curious shape, like a bad square or rectangle.

Additionally, and this is off this topic, but definately another one: As I understand it, each battalion will be represented by 400 figures/models.   Can this be adjusted?

I'd like to follow the historical OOBs as closely as I can, knowing that I have to adjust for the technical limitations in the game.  So, for Austerlitz, I know that I won't be able to have a 1:1 ratio for the battle.  So, each army is proportionately adjusted downward in strength.

The ratio is 1/10 (not 1/2).. For a batailion, the limit is 70 models.. and for less than this value, the software erases 1 model per 10 mens... It's possible to attach 6 batailions into a regiment and the limit for the strength is 5000 men.

However, I want to have the Tirailleurs du Po in my OOB yet that unit had only 340 men present and under arms on 11 frimaire an XIV. Which is about 45% of what most of the other battalions had under arms.

I am continuing my sentence.. I said the high limit is 70 models. Over this value, I can't add any model.In this case, the ratio isn't 1/10. It's the same problem for the other side.. and today I don't say the low limit.. Maybe the half (around 32 models) to get a good display. In this case, each side of the square is only displayed with 8 models.. No sure it's very nice.

 I think there is no problem to create the batailion.. but maybe there will be a problem if you try to create a lot of small units. Les Grognards only controls 100 units. And I am no sure you can define the Austerlitz OoB with all units. You have to do some choice before merging the batailions.

Yes, I know I can't have everything, but one wants to know.

We try to do the best. Maybe on the next years (2008 or 2009), we'll get the 1/1 ratio .

By the by, if you want a pesky Yankee as a beta tester.. I'm up for it.  I live and breathe the Wars of Napoleon... and I look forward to this game immeasurably   .

The beta team is full today. but if there is a new place, I don't forget to send an email.

JMM

(I hope all is clear)

[Lord of Khorne]

always 1 minute[/b]. All pelotons are maneuvring to get their position during this time and you can see that. By this way, I am working with napoleonic Reenactors and it's not sure the Nafziger's figures are right.. It seems the soldiers ran to get their position and they forgot the regulation because they quiclky must form the square.. and the square wasn't a real square.. but only a curious shape, like a bad square or rectangle.

I was an American Civil War reenactor for several years as well.

Nafziger uses the Regulation drill evolutions at pas de charge speed to get his times.  I believe he even admits that the times will be off slightly, but give us the times as a useful basis from which to start an evaluation.

Even running into position, the time to change formation would be longer than what a reenactor would perform today under some circumstances and short under others.

Order and alignment were extremely important to the unit's cohesion as the rank & file would not be allowed to willy nilly sprint into where they think they'd be positioned in the square (rectangle).  This is especially true for the square as a badly formed/disordered square was worse than no square at all.  

However it's your game, so if you declare it takes a minute, I'll have to live with that decision.

Is the 100 unit upper limit a technical limitation based on current computer hardware or is it based on how you are coding the game?

One thing I'd thought of recently was to see someone use the animations for troops from Rise of Nations, but give them the AI for proper Napoleonic formations and drill.  

Thanks again...