Les Grognard graphics

[Link]

Hello all,

There is a discussion going on the French forum talking about the graphics of Les Grognards (presented on this site) being horrible or not.

What do you think?

The graphics is not final and the presentation could have been better (Moore realistic scenes).

In my opinion, the graphics may not be state of the art but it's good considering the number of simultaneous soldiers being about 30000-50000 compared to Imperial glory (IG) 2000. The soldier ratio is about 1:10 in Les Grognards (LG) while IG has a lot higher ratio.  IG only has one type of model for each unit while LG have officers, drummers, flag bearer etc.

IG also has just a handfull of units in the game and they haven't even got the uniforms right.  

The figures for RTW are higher than IG but still not in the same league as LG.  :wink:

/Lars L.

[Le Tondu]

Given what Link has stated and what we know about a 3D Napoleonic games, I had to give the graphics a "good" rating.  Considering ALL the other games that are out there, and the general state of the art, that's a different story altogether.

From my perspective, it looked like there was too much bright white.  Units from a distance seemed to be overwhelmed by bright white dots.  Can a white that is closer to an off-white be used instead?  Just a thought.

All in all, it is excellent that things are rolling along.  In my opinion, graphics might be able to be improved with time.  They are not a valid reason to hold up the game.  We want to start playing the game.  --Even if it is only in 2D.  

Great work JMM.  Thank you for being so responsive and open to letting your fans know how the project is going.

Rick

[Link]

Bonsoir Le Tondu,

Thanks for your opinions. However I'm not sure what you are referring to when you talk about the uniforms being too white. Isn't the uniforms in the screenshot below off white enough?



Besides what's wrong with white? Many did have white uniforms. Most had white breeches and at big battles they liked to wear their best. The off white trousers were worn mostly on the march. Not everyone would agree with that though.   However most units in Les Grognards are wearing the full dress.   :wink:  

/Lars L.

[Le Tondu]

Sorry, I meant a unit when viewed from a distance.  No negative criticism is intended.  White is nice.  (Except for those darn Austrians.)  

Wow, that company of Grenadiers sure looks nice.  Umm, aren't those shako plates just a tiny bit over-sized?  I like the piping and buttons and mud on the gaiters and belt buckles.........
Rick

[Hentzau]

I understood what Le Tondu meant, troops at a distance give a pixelated look to the screenshots.  Are there different lods? Maybe the distant lods should be painted in a different manner?

I like the troops fine themselves, I find the terrain a bit dark and drab to stare at.  Wouldn't mind seeing lightened terrain textures myself.

[Le Tondu]

I understood what Le Tondu meant, troops at a distance give a pixelated look to the screenshots.  Are there different lods? Maybe the distant lods should be painted in a different manner?..........

Um, that was what I meant.  (I think.)    Thanks Hentzau.

[JMM]

Bonjour Everybody,

You are right.. Today, all graphic process aren't finished..

For example, the lod (level of detail) isn't implemented for the objects (buildings and soldier).  I have to work on the mipmaping too (mipmap = filtering of textures)

Your remark about the darkness of the ground is right too. All objects seems better with the winter white color.

Some tasks about the light too... (and bumpmaping for the building (to get better texture for the wall..) ).

These adjustments will be done when all process will run fine.

Cordialy
JMM

[Link]

Sorry, I meant a unit when viewed from a distance.  No negative criticism is intended.  White is nice.  (Except for those darn Austrians.)  

Wow, that company of Grenadiers sure looks nice.  Umm, aren't those shako plates just a tiny bit over-sized?  I like the piping and buttons and mud on the gaiters and belt buckles.........
Rick

Bonjour Rick,

Criticism is good, how else can one improve him self.  
I understand you meant from a distance and as JMM stated he got something up in his sleeve to adjust this.  :wink:

About the shako plates, sure they are a bit oversized but no big deal I think. To change it would require more time that's needed elsewhere. It's always a matter of priority.  :P

Btw the screenshot above is actually a battalion of Line Infantry (even though they have the red grenadier plume). You can see the grenadier company in the rear with bearskin caps. (The bearskins caps for the grenadier company was historically replaced with a shako in 1812, not in the game though.)

Some unhistorical choices had to be made to run the game fine, but still this game is the most historical correct I ever seen.  :wink:

/Lars.

[Guderian]

Interesting screenshot. I really like how the different uniforms for officers and subunits are modelled. It gives a much more likelike appearance than just giving everyone the same dress.

BTW what's the scale of the game? I make it around 55 soldiers in that screenshot, so if that's a full battalion it should be around 1:10 scale. Is that correct?

[Link]

You are correct Guderian, the ratio is about 1:10.  

If you have any other questions feel free to ask. I've been around for a while so I think I will be able to answer some of them if not I'll pass it on to JMM.  

There is also the FAQ section http://www.histwar.com/forum/forum-38.html&sid=cb8918d1e01a827ec21d237544d2b586 where you can find some answeres.  :wink:

/Lars L.

[Hentzau]

To explain a bit on the darkness of the terrain what I'm more likely trying to say is that people seem to like reality in their uniforms, but then they seem to like to play wargames/miniatures on cheerful colors.  Sort of like how people like to golf on a well manicured course.  A new flight game called Wings of War was released recently.  The terrain colors in that game are WAY too bright and yet people seemed to rave about the terrain in that game.  I found that I didn't really like playing Combat Mission when I introduced the more realistic user mod terrains that weren't as cheerful. I like the original map for "Highway to the Reich" for example, instead of the more correctly colored/darker new map.   If anything, terrain might be an area that you might want to consider having open for user made mods.  To leave out "space" for modders is to leave out a large part of your audience.

[saddletank]

I can see the 3D models are limited in their complexity, but considering how much more processing is going on in the game engine compared to some other wargames, and considering how much bigger the armies are, I have given you a 'good' rating.

I was amazed to hear you have no LODs built in yet for distant man and building models. Have you thought about converting the 3D soldiers (and perhaps vegetation) to 2D sprites once they are more than about 500m away?

[JMM]

I was amazed to hear you have no LODs built in yet for distant man and building models. Have you thought about converting the 3D soldiers (and perhaps vegetation) to 2D sprites once they are more than about 500m away?

Done  

Software takes a photography for each soldier before drawing it. This photography is drawed at long range (200 meters.. at this distance, a 3D soldier is around 40..50 pixels... and the size of the photography is 64 pixels.. so there isn"t any loss of the quality   As you know, all soldiers in the same orientation/attitude/uniform are drawing with the same photography...
Around 8 Mb are needed for this task which saves 512 photographies.. It's possible I increase this size.
For very long distance, software only uses the uniform because orientation/attitude aren't interesting. Just the color is pertinent.

Sure, this process is used for the trees.. and I use the normal LOD process for the building.

I hope all is clear.

JMM

[saddletank]

Good. Sounds like you have the game working efficiently there.

[black_fish]

I think that the graphics are correct for this game, and splendid if you compare it to the average wargame. Yes Rome Total War has better graphics but they also had tons of well paid artists on it

I just have one reproach to make about the screenshots and especially movies: I don't know who's making the movies but all we get is closeups on the units which in my opinion is a mistake. First, because the units don't look as good as say Imperial Glory, and second because the game is not about that! It's not about counting the hairs in a Grenadier mustache, it's about big units of men moving and fighting together. So you are desserving yourself by putting the emphasis on some of your weaknesses and not showing your strengths.
Man, if you could show us a nice charge of Imperial Cuirassiers against a strong English square in a bird's eye view movie, you'd see a lot of people give up on other games and turning their attention to LG!
So give us huge armies (Lord of the Rings syndrom), lotsa smoke, lotsa action!