Borodino 2012 re-enactment

[DominiqueT]

I realy can't understand why you Frenchmans think that you won Borodino battle, because you take some unfinished redoubts and Russian army don't attack you on next day and leave battlefield? Maybe we can classify this like a draw, but not more.

P.S. If you think that Russia lost battle because Kutuzov don't attack on next day, i think it was impossible to attack on small front full of corpses.

Just because Borodino is the last battle fought by the Russians to keep Moscow. They loose the battle and Moscow. It's as simple as that. If they hadn't lost the battle, they would have kept Moscow.

[Jacquinot]

Just because Borodino is the last battle fought by the Russians to keep Moscow. They loose the battle and Moscow. It's as simple as that. If they hadn't lost the battle, they would have kept Moscow.

Dominique you always talk about Moscow, Moscow is just market town, Napolen never told that his main target was a Moscow, his main target was to destroy Russian army and Kutuzov main target was to destroy or maximum weaken the French army. You always think that if you take Moscow you win Borodino battle, like Hitler who think that if he take Stalingrad he win a war.

[Jacquinot]

I just want to say that, visiting russian military museum (Moscow, Krasnoie, borodino, st petersbourg, ...), it appears that russians guide do not accept any defeat :
Austerlitz ? they win a napoleonian flag : a victory (it 's the only painting in the borodino museum on Austerlitz)
Freideland ? it is a "victorious defeat" (dixit the russian guide)

Austerlitz was a Russian defeat, all Russians know that! Stupid Tsar Alexandr don't listen general Kutuzov.

[Belliard]

I am now reading the book Dominic lieven "Russia against Napoleon" and indeed the Russian point of view on their victories intéréssant is and is not at all what we are taught in Europe.

[baurya]

Mais certains historiens avancent que D. Lieven a un parti pris

[Belliard]

Je confirme, je suis en pleine lecture de son dernier livre, et sa façon d'écrire et de commenter les événements "au delà de ses sources", reste très orienté....

[baurya]

je n'ai pas encore lu l'ouvrage mais mes sources (historiens) disent que, selo, D. Lieven, Barclay de tolly avait prémédité sa retraite pour attirer Napoélon.

c'est certaineemnt pour cela qu'il a été disgracié 

[Belliard]

D'après se que j'ai lu, tous les généraux en chef étaient d'accord sur le repli stratégique Alexandre y comprit.
l'armée Russe comprenait 3 armées, la 1re de Barclay avec 136000 h, la 2eme de Bagration avec 57000 h, la 3éme de Tormassov avec 48000 h. Face aux 600.000 h de Napoléon, cela semble logique.