HistWar
HistWar (English zone) => General discussions => Discussion démarrée par: Alfiere le 23 janvier 2011, 14:42:49 pm
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I have a great curiosity about AI regimental.
Probabily could write a book for how work.
But broadly what do, which step controls?
I have not understood why the guns are always limber and stationary without orders,is not better unlimber if stationary?
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I have a great curiosity about AI regimental.
Probabily could write a book for how work.
But broadly what do, which step controls?
I have not understood why the guns are always limber and stationary without orders,is not better unlimber if stationary?
Yes, i think guns must be unlimber when regiment be in line formation and limber when regiment be in attack or march column, but i think its not big problem to push "detach guns" buttom. But one quation - WHERE IS THE "ATTACH GUNS" BUTTOM!!!??? :p
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I hope that in the future the doctrine will be a great opportunity to interact with AI regimental.
But other at primary and secondary objectives for guns,formations and permissions for normal and detaches units will be possible customize other behavior ?
examples :
scouts behavior.(return after spotting or not)
placements units in defensive line or offensive line. (guns and inf at center, cavalry on wing, or other options)
unlimber guns if without orders or not
detach units that became attach units after x times
end so on
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I hope that in the future the doctrine will be a great opportunity to interact with AI regimental.
But other at primary and secondary objectives for guns,formations and permissions for normal and detaches units will be possible customize other behavior ?
examples :
scouts behavior.(return after spotting or not)
placements units in defensive line or offensive line. (guns and inf at center, cavalry on wing, or other options)
unlimber guns if without orders or not
detach units that became attach units after x times
end so on
I think we cant on 100% simulate Napoleonic wars with AI, it was time of human resourcefulness and
inventiveness, AI cant compete with generals of this time.
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Yes , is true , but is always possible give orders with micromanagement.
Only for standardize own preferred behavior in the battle.(for that will be possible)
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Yes , is true , but is always possible give orders with micromanagement.
Only for standardize own preferred behavior in the battle.(for that will be possible)
I think we need three things: 1) Division commanders, 2) "Attach guns" buttom, 3) "Charge" buttom.
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Respectfully, I disagree Jacquinot. It is one of the charms of LG that I do not order units to charge - though I do order attacks. That is the job of a colonel and I play a general. UNLESS I take command of that unit, seizing its standard and leading it into combat, and then I should lose all greater control of my army because I have demoted myself.
However, I look forward to division commanders. :)
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Respectfully, I disagree Jacquinot. It is one of the charms of LG that I do not order units to charge - though I do order attacks. That is the job of a colonel and I play a general. UNLESS I take command of that unit, seizing its standard and leading it into combat, and then I should lose all greater control of my army because I have demoted myself.
However, I look forward to division commanders. :)
I'm with Harry here, I want to keep micromanagement to a minimum
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I'm with Harry here, I want to keep micromanagement to a minimum
Mee too!
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Respectfully, I disagree Jacquinot. It is one of the charms of LG that I do not order units to charge - though I do order attacks. That is the job of a colonel and I play a general. UNLESS I take command of that unit, seizing its standard and leading it into combat, and then I should lose all greater control of my army because I have demoted myself.
However, I look forward to division commanders. :)
I think we need charge buttom for more bayonet attacks.
I want play colonel or Brigade general and say to my soldiers - "Give them cold steel boys" - L.Armistead.
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I think we need charge buttom for more bayonet attacks.
I want play colonel or Brigade general and say to my soldiers - "Give them cold steel boys" - L.Armistead.
As in reality, fighting calculation is based on moral. If your regiments do not charged, it is surely because they do not have enough moral to do it. Consequently, a "charged" button will be usefull because even if you give hundred times the order to charge, the regiment will execute the order only if its moral allows this action. And it still exists an "attack" button that made infantery or cavalry to attack.
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As in reality, fighting calculation is based on moral. If your regiments do not charged, it is surely because they do not have enough moral to do it. Consequently, a "charged" button will be usefull because even if you give hundred times the order to charge, the regiment will execute the order only if its moral allows this action. And it still exists an "attack" button that made infantery or cavalry to attack.
And what is moral? If you fight in Borodino battle for your motherland near walls of Moscow, tell me what is your moral level? How LG can calculate my moral level when im fight for motherland?
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And what is moral? If you fight in Borodino battle for your motherland near walls of Moscow, tell me what is your moral level? How LG can calculate my moral level when im fight for motherland?
With a so high moral level I wonder why Russian lost Borodino battle :roll:.
More seriously, if you want to know about moral and psychology in combat, read this book :
http://www.amazon.fr/Battle-Studies-Charles-Jacques-Ardant/dp/115359112X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1296648161&sr=8-3 (http://www.amazon.fr/Battle-Studies-Charles-Jacques-Ardant/dp/115359112X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1296648161&sr=8-3)
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With a so high moral level I wonder why Russian lost Borodino battle :roll:.
More seriously, if you want to know about moral and psychology in combat, read this book :
http://www.amazon.fr/Battle-Studies-Charles-Jacques-Ardant/dp/115359112X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1296648161&sr=8-3 (http://www.amazon.fr/Battle-Studies-Charles-Jacques-Ardant/dp/115359112X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1296648161&sr=8-3)
Russian lost Borodino battle???!!! Are you jocking???!!! 8000 soldiers of Prince Bagration with 52 canons stand against 45000 soldiers of Davout, Ney, Murat with 200 canons at 6.00 to 10.oo am on fleches under horror canonade! At 18.00 Russian army stand also like in begining of battle. 40000-45000 french soldiers was wounden and dead, 8 french generals was dead and 41 wounded. Do you think its French victory?
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Russian lost Borodino battle???!!! Are you jocking???!!! 8000 soldiers of Prince Bagration with 52 canons stand against 45000 soldiers of Davout, Ney, Murat with 200 canons at 6.00 to 10.oo am on fleches under horror canonade! At 18.00 Russian army stand also like in begining of battle. 40000-45000 french soldiers was wounden and dead, 8 french generals was dead and 41 wounded. Do you think its French victory?
It was really not the question. Focusing on a detail to avoid the real debat is so easy. So read Ardant du Picq book and then come back and have a serious argued discussion about moral.
There are hundreds examples in war history where very high moral level regiments were defeated or fled.
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It was really not the question. Focusing on a detail to avoid the real debat is so easy. So read Ardant du Picq book and then come back and have a serious argued discussion about moral.
There are hundreds examples in war history where very high moral level regiments were defeated or fled.
Of course high moral level regiments can be defeated, but i dont understand how game can right calculate this level.
And i dont understand why detachet regiments always have low moral level, i want charge buttom to be independet from this level.
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For me, the more I play, the more I trust the corps AI. So I only detach units when I want them to move faster ahead: ie light inf to occupy buildings before the ennemy. In theses conditions I guess it is understandable that the moral of isolated units (even elites) should be weaker until they get support from their comrades.
Having say that, it could be worth considering the idea of having a "charge" order for corps and units.
BUT with the following restrictions in order to avoid an excessive and non-historical use of this order.
1) Low moral units or corps will still always refuse to charge
2) This order should be used only once in a battle for corps and for 2 choosen units.
3 ) "charge" order should correspond to a "point of no return" meaning that if the ennemy line is not broken after a while, the charge will turn into a dramatic drop in unit moral (and a possible runaway).
In these conditions one will think twice before to use the "charge" order, but it could be very rewarding to have taken the risk at the right moment in the battle. Having this option will help us to mimics historical "special" orders such as : "take (or hold) this position at any price" or or as at Eylau the order to the cavalry to charge the Russian columns.
As a matter of fact, one of the very few things that I still find frustrating in the game id to see a deploying corps stoping its progression for artillery preparation while a gap opens in the enemy line or when the enemy units are weak enough to be pushed back faster without artillery support. With a charge order the AI should let the guns following behind and should increase the cohesion of the corps units. I think this order will also be very suitable for heavy cavalry corps on special occasions.
What do you think : enough historical or not ?
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I agree that these charges should happen, but I disagree about the recommended solution (a charge button). These opportunistic charges are a job for the unit AI, and should happen automatically, subject to the leader's initiative ability.
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For me, the more I play, the more I trust the corps AI. So I only detach units when I want them to move faster ahead: ie light inf to occupy buildings before the ennemy. In theses conditions I guess it is understandable that the moral of isolated units (even elites) should be weaker until they get support from their comrades.
Yea, real problem for detached units its low moral level, and its very hard to play historical battles when many units detached. I think division AI is necessary.
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It might be useful to think of it as, any time you give a corps a deploy order, every unit in the front line of the corps has a continuously pressed "charge" button, and will charge as soon as conditions permit. A separate manual charge button wouldn't do any more than the game is doing now.
I figure if I want to give charge orders at any time and have them always carried out, I'll go play Austerlitz: Napoleon's Greatest Victory. One thing I learned from that game is that getting too aggressive and giving too many charge orders will lose you the battle very quickly.
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